Oh boy...here we go

[needham]

actually in the very vidoe, BG hips are more open at impact, than your still pic leads on.
Beyond that, give me BG tour earnigns over Mahan's anyday.

I think BG swing is a bad example for many reasons. I would like to see Fred Funk's and other "short" hitters same position at impact

 

[ej20]

actually in the very vidoe, BG hips are more open at impact, than your still pic leads on.
Beyond that, give me BG tour earnigns over Mahan's anyday.

I think BG swing is a bad example for many reasons. I would like to see Fred Funk's and other "short" hitters same position at impact

I am not discussing tour earnings or who is the better overall player but BG is a far superior putter than HM.He could also have the superior mental edge.HM hasn't been on tour long.He might break out one year.He is consistently one of the best ball strikers.

I am just trying to perhaps highlight the swing differences between the 2 styles that can be seen visually and not "felt" as we can debate feel all day and get nowhere.

I think you are trying to see things that are really not there.BG's hips are about as square as you can possibly get with a DRIVER swing.A tad open is not open.The tour average is something like 40 degrees.

I could be wrong as all this is just my opinion from my observation.

Perhaps BM could chime in here.

 

[needham]

well if a "tad open is not open" then "about as square as you can possibly get with a DRIVER swing" is NOT square................

I looked at the youtube clip you put up, THERE IS NO DOUBT that BG's hips are not as open as the "standard tour player" but even at impact you can see his left buttock, well some of it...............I wonder if the neck/back injury he had 4 years ago comes into play?

I do understand your point, I think we are saying closer to the same thing than we realize, LOL

 

[puttmad]

How about Jim Furyk?

His hips are pretty much open at impact (...) and he is not classed as a long hitter (but accurate!)....

 

[vjsinger]

Not trying to take a side here just trying to ask ej a question. How do you know the TOUR average is "something like" 40 degrees? What is the average? is it 40, or something like 40, or 25?? Thanks. I need statistical data.

 

[ej20]

I haven't done the measurements myself but I have read some reports that have said 30 degrees while others have said 40.If you have looked at enough swings you will know that is believable.I reckon Sadlowski is in excess of 45 degrees.I don't think the actual number is that important.Amateurs in general have far less hip rotation than pros.

Importance od Hip Rotation in the Golf Swing

 

[vjsinger]

IMO its not an arguement that can be won. Hips in relation to what? shoulders,target line, crack line?? What shot is trying to be played, how high, smash factor?? Just too many variables, and not enough evidence to say open hips have anything to do with it AT "impact" JMO.

 

[ej20]

How about Jim Furyk?

His hips are pretty much open at impact (...) and he is not classed as a long hitter (but accurate!)....

There are always going to be exceptions to every rule.If you dig hard enough you will find an argument for anything.There are many other factors influencing distance other than technique.Amount of fast twitch muscles...some are just not as strong and fast as others.

I challenge you to find even one long drive competitor who doesn't have wide open hips at impact.You can't just "arm" the ball 400 yards.

 

[ej20]

IMO its not an arguement that can be won. Hips in relation to what? shoulders,target line, crack line?? What shot is trying to be played, how high, smash factor?? Just too many variables, and not enough evidence to say open hips have anything to do with it AT "impact" JMO.

If you can't see the difference between the impact hip postion between Hunter Mahan and Brian Gay then I don't see the point in furthering this debate.

 

[vjsinger]

If you can't see the difference between the impact hip postion between Hunter Mahan and Brian Gay then I don't see the point in furthering this debate.

I see the difference, but I still ask... Hips in relation to what and for what shot and trajectory?? I think we all have learned that seeing things in 2D is not optimal. I'm trying to be very specific that's all.

 

[ej20]

You don't need to be that specific.I have not seen one swing of Brian Gay showing significant rotation of the hips regardless of the shot or the club he's using.And vice versa for Hunter Mahan.

And this goes double for the amateur.If you don't have enough hip rotation,you are never going to look like Hunter Mahan regardless of the type of shot you are attempting.

 

[needham]

I just found stew cink slow mo, and his hips are LESS open than BG at impact
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tjrAnidTu4&feature=related[/media]

at the 10 second mark you will see

EJ, I do understand what you say but I think it boils down to different strokes for different folks

 

[ej20]

needham,

Two things.That clip of Cink is at a very poor angle you must agree.Also he's swinging an iron.There will be less hip rotation as the club gets shorter.

You want to be comparing Cink and Gay swinging the same club.

I do agree however that Cink doesn't have a great deal of hip rotation compared to say Mahan but he's got plenty compared to the average player who is mostly arms.

Here is Cink at a better angle swinging a driver.

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[vjsinger]

Yeah I think you do need to be that specific when you swing a driver (a relatively small object at the end of a stick) at 115-125mph with a tiny sweetspot, even for the average amateur that swings it at the much slower speed. Hard to quantify hip rotation in 2d..things I look at in 2d, posture,APPEARANCE of weight distribution(can't tell this without proper equipment), pivot,arm swing and the list goes on and on. IMO its pretty hard to do, at least for my untrained eyes.

 

[Zztop]

Different strokes for different folks, that's what it boils down to.

 

[ej20]

Yeah I think you do need to be that specific when you swing a driver (a relatively small object at the end of a stick) at 115-125mph with a tiny sweetspot, even for the average amateur that swings it at the much slower speed. Hard to quantify hip rotation in 2d..things I look at in 2d, posture,APPEARANCE of weight distribution(can't tell this without proper equipment), pivot,arm swing and the list goes on and on. IMO its pretty hard to do, at least for my untrained eyes.

Well,when you find out the specifics please let us all know.I don't like to overcomplicate the golf swing any more than I need to.It's difficult enough.

 

[Zztop]

It's not how they can do it good, it's how can you do it good.

 

[Zztop]

Well,when you find out the specifics please let us all know.I don't like to overcomplicate the golf swing any more than I need to.It's difficult enough.

I think vj said it was hard for him to give specifics, untrained eye and doesn't have the equipment to measure the specifics.

 

[ej20]

Different strokes for different folks, that's what it boils down to.

I agree.Brian Gay has done pretty well with a swing that has little rotation.I never said hip rotation is an imperative to play great golf.

I just said I believe it to be superior as shown by most of the great players past and present.

 

[vjsinger]

Back to the OP..??? Hmmm, Paddy is looking pretty good IMO.