OK, so how did Hogan do it (his "Secret")?
- Thread starter jeffy
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This is really another issue that depends on BOTH the left and right wedges being in balance - and different perspectives will argue around their "points". Do you focus on the left wedge, or the right....
Don't confuse the left wedge with the right - you must understand and maintain them both.
Per 2-D-0 . . .And from Driver to Putter, directional deviation can be diagnostic:
1. Shoulder Turn “Closes” the Clubface – the “Pull.”
2. Not extending the Right Arm “Opens” the Clubface – the “Push.”
3. Bending the Left Wrist makes the Clubface alignment erratic.
Also study 2-F, 2-G and 2-J.
And also to this point . . .
Per 4-A-3 . . . 4-A-3 ARCHED The Wrist is ARCHED when the Hand is bent forward – or inward – “rounding off” the forearm. A small amount is advisable and very useful (as insurance against 4-A-2 above and as amplification of Clubhead Lag) if its Push Shot tendency is properly compensated.
I'm not the best ballstriker of all time and I was doing it with manipulation just a few hrs ago! It's really not that big a deal. Just make your left forearm "outrun" the left hand - if you don't like that, try increasing the right wrist bend. Feels great because it adds lag and guarantees no left wrist bend.
birdie_man
New
I have never heard that (5* open at Address) before. I honestly don't think it would be possible for him to get the clubface closed if he did that with a weak grip/full swivel.....
Maybe with Single Wrist Action....
I just dunno about that one man.....
IMO....he woulda been playin one hell of a fade (slice?)....and at that point it would be a pretty weak fade.....I just can't see it as possible.
Unless Single Wrist Action....or even with a Twist-Away type move...
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
jeffy....you're having a "term problem." A "manipulated hand swinger" in TGM simply means you are not a TRUE SWINGER where the only thing powering the swing is centrifugal force. If hogan was a "true swinger" he wouldn't have his arched wrist going on, he wouldn't be "trying to roll as hard as he could" as he has said in multiple sources.
So don't start confuse "manipulation" as what most average golfers do, "manipulated swingers" in TGM simply mean you are doing "something else" besides letting centrifugal force do everything (few ever do btw).
birdie_man
New
Exactly....it's kinda a funny term but that's the way it is.
I think Bobby Jones would be a "pure" Swinger right?
I think Bobby Jones would be a "pure" Swinger right?
David Alford
New
<Look at the photos - at the top, the face is closed with the cupped(bent) left wrist. Moving from cupped to arched is moving from closed to open.>
To the contrary, cupped left wrist at the top is open.
To the contrary, cupped left wrist at the top is open.
David Alford
New
Bobby Jones was a puller. Contrary to all the hype over his swing, it needs to be shelved.
However, he was a hero.
However, he was a hero.
birdie_man
New
Is it open because it's cupped though? (not cupped much for what I've seen/heard).....or is it just open because he rotates (Swivels) his left forearm lots?
I don't think the bend opens it.
A bent left wrist at impact will cause the clubface to hit the outside of the ball - hence the clubface is closed. It follows that a bent left wrist at the top, whether with single or standard wrist action, still gives a closed clubface. What sense would it make for the definition of closed to change from impact to the top?
David Alford
New
MizunoJoe, with all due respect, you made an error in calling a cupped left wrist at the top "closed". I can't imagine any teacher would say the opposite. If Homer says otherwise, I REALLY want to know. There obviously are all type of downswing possibilities, but that is a separate subject.
Birdieman, a cupped left wrist is open, irregardless. However, one could do a bit of trickery and take a really strong grip and the clubface would be open relative to a normal straight wrist, but would tend to be closed at impact because of the manner in which the club was gripped.
Birdieman, a cupped left wrist is open, irregardless. However, one could do a bit of trickery and take a really strong grip and the clubface would be open relative to a normal straight wrist, but would tend to be closed at impact because of the manner in which the club was gripped.
David Alford
New
I can take a short pitching motion and hit inside to out, no problem.
But, I don't see the relevance.
I'm not arguing the cupped wrist eventually should become flat or arched at impact. The point is, at the top of the swing it is open. By cupping the left wrist, the clubface is opened more than it would be otherwise.
But, I don't see the relevance.
I'm not arguing the cupped wrist eventually should become flat or arched at impact. The point is, at the top of the swing it is open. By cupping the left wrist, the clubface is opened more than it would be otherwise.
David Alford
New
revise: "...should not become flat or arched at impact.
birdie_man
New
I can see what you're getting at David. I think what's throwing me off is the fact that if you Bend the LWrist at Address it closes the face.
And- there are different ways to take it to the top with a bent left wrist....in certain ways you're right though. i.e. by cocking the right wrist/bending the left at the top...you're gonna slice it huge...especially with a full swivel (Standard Wrist Action).
But try doing it with Standard Wrist Action (hope you know what that is) and WITHOUT cocking your right wrist.
Take a backswing with a flat left wrist at the top....then bend it.
It's not as common for someone to do it this way (most slicers cock the right wrist/bend the left/over-swivel to the inside) but it does close the clubface.
....
If nothing else, doing all this left wrist cupping, right wrist cocking stuff just made me realize why so many golfers slice....and why Twistaway works.
And- there are different ways to take it to the top with a bent left wrist....in certain ways you're right though. i.e. by cocking the right wrist/bending the left at the top...you're gonna slice it huge...especially with a full swivel (Standard Wrist Action).
But try doing it with Standard Wrist Action (hope you know what that is) and WITHOUT cocking your right wrist.
Take a backswing with a flat left wrist at the top....then bend it.
It's not as common for someone to do it this way (most slicers cock the right wrist/bend the left/over-swivel to the inside) but it does close the clubface.
....
If nothing else, doing all this left wrist cupping, right wrist cocking stuff just made me realize why so many golfers slice....and why Twistaway works.
"I can take a short pitching motion and hit inside to out, no problem."
If you do that with a bent left wrist and with an in-to-out impact in an on-plane motion, you will hit the OUTSIDE of the ball - it will be no problem if you don't mind going left of the target! Ever heard of the term "leakage hook"?
The relevance is that the clubface is "closed" at impact with a bent left wrist. So at the top, you propose that a bent left wrist gives an "open" face. Simply transporting a closed face from the bottom to the top, mysteriously transforms it to open.
If you do that with a bent left wrist and with an in-to-out impact in an on-plane motion, you will hit the OUTSIDE of the ball - it will be no problem if you don't mind going left of the target! Ever heard of the term "leakage hook"?
The relevance is that the clubface is "closed" at impact with a bent left wrist. So at the top, you propose that a bent left wrist gives an "open" face. Simply transporting a closed face from the bottom to the top, mysteriously transforms it to open.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
A bent left wrist (at impact) and a cupped left wrist (at the top of the swing) are two completely different things.
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