One Release Pattern Through the Bag

[johnnymarlboro]

I recently finished a book about putting by an instructor whos method is pretty close to the one I'm already using. I decided to fiddle around and try to apply some of the feels of the stroke to my chipping and pitching, and even to my full swing. It seems to, so far, be helping tremendously. It feels alot less contrived, and mechanical to my body. I've heard Tiger talking lately about wanting to match up his new full swing to his chipping and putting stroke. I'm not advocating one pattern or another, it just seems like it makes sense to me that if all matches using your prefered pattern it should make things easier.

My question is, does anyone out there have any more information about this concept of matching the stroke and release all the way through the bag? Or even comments and opinions on the subject. The announcers on tv are always going on about liking when a guy's putting stroke matches up with his full stroke, yet have blasted Tiger on wanting to change his short game and putting technique to match his full swing. What do you all think?

 

[dbl]

The announcers on tv are always going on about liking when a guy's putting stroke matches up with his full stroke...

Do what works of course, but...

Counter to your memory, I do not recall much mention of this on tv. The question always comes up in discussing this idea is does Pelz or Stockton teach their techniques for full swing, and why not?

 

[johnnymarlboro]

Do what works of course, but...

Counter to your memory, I do not recall much mention of this on tv. The question always comes up in discussing this idea is does Pelz or Stockton teach their techniques for full swing, and why not?

Yeah, I suppose the announcers are generally referring to tempo, and the length of stroke when they mention it. I was resisting mentioning instructors names since it always seems to start a flame war around here. But what you brought up about Pelz and Stockton is essentially what I'm getting at. I haven't read their putting books, but I understand they're both straight back, straight through teachers. I just didn't want this to be another this method vs that method thread. Just curious about how people apply these things to their own games.

 

[bgoodyear]

I just don't understand how a putting stroke can ever feel like a bigger swing that involves opening up of the shoulder and hips.

Chipping -> pitching -> full swing maybe, if you wanted to, but putting?

 

[dbl]

Well you can subtract the putting gurus names out...but how many of them (whatever method) teach the full swing as being the same?

 

[lia41985]

Don't be too "ideological" about it--whatever works. Do what you have to do to make the club work like a club and if you have to do something differently with one club than with another club, particularly because you're playing a "specialty shot", that is absolutely okay!

 

[westy]

i like the idea.
one pattern.
its easy.
just need to vary the delivery numbers to fit the shot at hand, using that pattern.
of course repertoire is fun too...

 

[johnnymarlboro]

I more just like the concept of it. All things being equal if you're doing the same motion over and over, or at least it FEELS the same, then it will be easier to repeat. It's golf, so obviously you're going to have to make specialty shots, and do some unusual things on occasion. (sometimes more then on occasion)

I think putting, and the short game in particular are totally hand in hand. The full swing is a little different obviously, because of the amount of power you're trying to generate. But have you ever had a really long putt, or a really short chip? Somewhere in there the lines get a little blurry. Putting is all about clubface control, and speed. Which in essence is the same as any other shot. Chipping and pitching can be accomplished with basically the same stroke, you just have to add a little pivot is all. Like westy said you "just need to vary the delivery numbers to fit the shot at hand, using that pattern."

Mostly I was just trying to start a discussion that was not about trackman. I'm just a regular guy, not an instructor or anything, so after reading the 5000th thread about Trackman, and "how can I get my AoA to this, using this path" my eyes were beginning to glaze over. I was kind of surprised to not hear more about this after Tiger stated that he was trying to match his short game/putting to his full swing.

 

[johnnymarlboro]

Well you can subtract the putting gurus names out...but how many of them (whatever method) teach the full swing as being the same?

If this is not rhetorical, and you're asking me... I have no idea. That's part of the reason I started this thread.

 

[Jwat]

It looks to me that alot of the pros now are delofting their club when chipping/pitching and then using pivot to hit the ball, so I agree when you say it is the same motion and just add/subtract some pivot.

Mangum states in putting to take the putter back with the left shoulder and arm going under, and then just allow the entire body to release the putter w/out any manipulation. So I can see where the 2 releases are similar in the fact that they aren't hand controlled, but body and the hands are infront of the ball at impact.

I think this is definitley something that needs to be answered by the experts. For me though, I feel like the full shots need a different release than the short shots. And since putting is almost half the strokes I would think it would be smarter to match my short shot release to my putting release, not the other way around.

 

[mjstrong]

I think that there are enough other differences in the swings (full vs. putting/chipping) to warrant different releases. In fact, you could make a case why you would NEED different releases:

Different weight transfer probably requires a different release. Different axis tilt at setup probably requires a different release. Etc...

It seems a little too "ideal" for me. Especially, in Tiger's case, since that isn't what he has done before. It would be different if a player was already doing things pretty similarly. I don't know why you'd revamp one of the best major championship short games of all time.

My first rule as a golf instructor is to not mess the (especially accomplished) player up. Luckily, I think Tiger has enough talent to get it done in lots of different ways, but time will tell...

 

[ligiahag7902]

I recently finished a book about putting by an instructor whos method is pretty close to the one I'm already using. I decided to fiddle around and try to apply some of the feels of the stroke to my chipping and pitching, and even to my full swing. It seems to, so far, be helping tremendously. It feels alot less contrived, and mechanical to my body. I've heard Tiger talking lately about wanting to match up his new full swing to his chipping and putting stroke. I'm not advocating one pattern or another, it just seems like it makes sense to me that if all matches using your prefered pattern it should make things easier.

My question is, does anyone out there have any more information about this concept of matching the stroke and release all the way through the bag? Or even comments and opinions on the subject. The announcers on tv are always going on about liking when a guy's putting stroke matches up with his full stroke, yet have blasted Tiger on wanting to change his short game and putting technique to match his full swing. What do you all think?

I also think so.

 

[aaron_lohan]

The idea falls apart when you come to bunker shots, they are completely different in that you don't even hit the ball and so you couldnt possibly use the same release as when you hit driver. Also different types of shots have different objectives, a drive is to hit the ball as far as possible within reasonable accuracy and a putt is to roll the ball across a surface with a precise amount of speed.

 

[mjstrong]

Those are also good points.