One swing or four swings?

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lia41985

lia41985

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Most of you are probably familiar with the theory of having only one swing to play with. The idea was probably popularized by Jack Nicklaus.

We've all been given an education on the D-plane that taught us that we probably need two different swings, at least: one for teed shots like the driver (more in to out to zero out) and another for shots played off the turf (more out to in to zero out).

I came across some information that says that we may need FOUR swings to optimize our games!

Sieckmann and Dr. Rose went on to explain how the kinematic sequence of the best wedge players in the world is backwards of what the best ball strikers do. Basically, in the full swing you are trying to be powerful, with wedges (less than 40 yards) you are trying to intentionally be weak. So you cast the club then at impact rotate your chest past your lowerbody. You want no lag, and you want no stretch-shorten cycles do to segmental loading. Ben Crane explained how he feels that he has 4 swings. A putt, a wood swing, an iron swing, and a wedge swing, and they are very different. This helps explain why many golfers struggle with one part of their game on any given day.
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Source: World Golf Fitness Summit – Day 3 Review | Golf Fitness Guys

Brian's signature hints at this. I thought you guys might enjoy some information that spells it out a bit more.

Happy holidays to you all!
 
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spktho

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That is interesting, especially when you always here that is just one golf swing. Brian eludes to that here too:

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macduffer

New
"the kinematic sequence of the best wedge players in the world is backwards of what the best ball strikers do. Basically, in the full swing you are trying to be powerful, with wedges (less than 40 yards) you are trying to intentionally be weak. So you cast the club then at impact rotate your chest past your lowerbody. You want no lag, and you want no stretch-shorten cycles do to segmental loading. Ben Crane explained how he feels that he has 4 swings. A putt, a wood swing, an iron swing, and a wedge swing, and they are very different"

Pelz been saying this for quite a long time; the Short Game Bible talks about this very idea.
 
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wulsy

New
Very logical, makes a lot of sense. As far as I know Pelz has never talked about changing the speed profile of the pivot throughout the set, but he did have the insight to restrict his advice on technique to the short game, thus implying that his advice was not suitable for the long game.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I didnt read the article but you need a different pivot and lead arm acceleration through the set. Some have gone as far as to say you need 14...as well as 14 different grips. You can at least say 3. Long clubs, short clubs and anything played off a higher tee.
 
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wulsy

New
At last the explanation for Favourite Club Syndrome? Also, "I'm sh*t hot with the driver at the moment but can't hit the green from 70 yards" Syndrome. The Jeff Overton "I look like a total chopper" swing with the wedge? The Dustin Johnson painful to watch wedge shots? They're having to swing so different to their favourite stock swings to get the desired result. At the end of the day you would have to say you do need 14 different swings.
 
ZAP

ZAP

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And here is yet another thing I have learned on this board that makes all the sense in the world but I am humbled to say I might not have thought of on my own.
 
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cwdlaw223

New
Great post! Does anyone try to cast their wedge shot and pivot? I've never heard of that one, however, the concept makes sense and it probably takes the inconsistency of trying to play with "hands" and lag to time the distance.
 
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softconsult

New
""the kinematic sequence of the best wedge players in the world is backwards of what the best ball strikers do. Basically, in the full swing you are trying to be powerful, with wedges (less than 40 yards) you are trying to intentionally be weak. So you cast the club then at impact rotate your chest past your lowerbody. You want no lag, and you want no stretch-shorten cycles do to segmental loading. Ben Crane explained how he feels that he has 4 swings. A putt, a wood swing, an iron swing, and a wedge swing, and they are very different"

Pelz been saying this for quite a long time; the Short Game Bible talks about this very idea.'

Just my reaction. What does all that mean? I'm not going run out and try to cast my wedge shots.
 
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macduffer

New
This is from memory - I'm with the folks for the holiday - so it might not be spot on. But here goes...

Pelz talks about his early research calculating the skills of (largely professional) golfers. He found that, statistically speaking, relative to shot distance, top golfers actually hit their 5-7 irons more accurately that 50-70yd pitches (this was a while ago, mind you). He eventually came to the conclusion that the 'conventional' golf swing was designed for power with a full(ish) swing, and that this was a less than ideal way to play your wedges. In fact, add in putting, and he found there were actually 3 'swings'.

It led him to advocate a pitching swing where you make a 'synchronised turn', ie the upper and lower body turn together hence avoiding a 'coil' - that sounds a bit like 'no stretch-shorten cycles' to me.

On a side note, when our club champ (plus 2) talked about the so called 'tour pitch' he talked about opening the face on the backswing, then casting the club as hard as he could whilst rotating the chest through the ball.
 
lia41985

lia41985

New member
Good pitching shows a reversed kinematic sequence compared to swings with the longer clubs. Be that as it may, what do you guys make of Tiger's changes to his pitching technique?

Before:
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After:
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The guy who some argue does it best--Seve:
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dlam

New
I am in favor of having two swings(one for irons and one for woods) and one stroke(for putter).
wedge play, driver teed up would be variations of the above. Just to make it simple.
 
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SteveT

Guest
lia41985 said:
Good pitching shows a reversed kinematic sequence compared to swings with the longer clubs. Be that as it may, what do you guys make of Tiger's changes to his pitching technique?
Click to expand...

"...a reversed kinematic sequence .." .... ????!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

Where? How? Describe it in words ... NOT pictures and asking the viewer to agree with you ...!!!!!

IOW ... PROVE IT ... after all, this is now becoming a 'scientific' golf forum .... PROVE IT OR LOSE IT ...!!!!!
 
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GolfHappy

New
I don't think you can play with only 1 swing, a high soft landing wedge isn't the same as a punched wedge that checks on the first bounce and neither is a pull-fade swing the same as a push-draw.

However, 1 swing and 1 shot shape is enough to be getting on with to start :)
 
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