saltman241
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Isn't there a ball striking statistic?
Patterns/Systems - Pros - Greens in Reg
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duckjr78
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I agree with you birly. I have been trying to figure out the right makeup for my 14 clubs for the past year or so. In doing so, I have looked through many of the pro's bags and have seen one underlying theme.
For the most part, the pros carry fewer wedges than the weekend warrior (should). For instance, I carry 4 wedges from 47° to 60°. Most pros cover these with just 3 wedges. They have the time to practice and make sure they are comfortable at each of the shorter distances.
Then they take this extra club and add it at the top of the set. Most guys carry a 3 & 5 wood, 3 hybrid, and 4 iron. They have as many clubs to cover 200 to 260yds as they do 90 to 150yds.
I know this flies in the face of Pelz's research, but I think the practice routines and technology have gotten so much better that everyone realizes the need for an excellent wedge game and they make sure they have one. Once they get good enough with the wedges, they get extra help on the longer shots by adding the extra club in at the top.
My reasoning for this follows your premise. The length of the par 5s (and par 3s) these guys face makes it better for them to have an extra long club in their bag.
I am positive that what seperates the excellent golfers from the very good ones is their long shot accuracy, and as proof, I give you Tiger, Nicklaus, Snead, Hogan, Jones. All were longer and straighter with their long clubs than any of their comtemporaries.
softconsult
New
I agree with your logic on club selection. I carry 47, 51, 56, 60. As compared to a tour player, I have many more opportunities to use them. Wish I didn't!
However, I think putting is the key. This is repeatedly stated
by players and commentators.
However, I think putting is the key. This is repeatedly stated
by players and commentators.
I don't mind disagreement, I have no patience for ridiculous questions/statements.
Not possible to evaluate? Define the word effective?? BMan doesn't have a pattern??? Where did I come up with this science based concept even though most of the threads lately are attempting to deal with science and golf???? If you honestly believe that your questions/statements added value to my question there is nothing further to talk about. These are the types of questions that people pose when they want to avoid giving an answer because they don't like the answer. You attacked me with your ridiculous questions, not the other way around.
I believe the answer to my question is no and in the end any system/pattern can work effectively even if one system/pattern is based upon provable science and others aren't.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
If athleticism was the most probably success factor in playing good golf then every athlete in the world would be great golfers including all professional athletes. It helps, but guarantees nothing.
softconsult
New
"If you honestly believe that your questions/statements added value to my question there is nothing further to talk about. "
What makes you think that posters must add value to a question?
No, I didn't add value to your question. I thought your question was, as I said, "A question with no answer."
The capper is that now you come back and say ,"I believe the answer to my question is no and in the end any system/pattern can work effectively even if one system/pattern is based upon provable science and others aren't."
Why ask the question in the first place?
I give up.
What makes you think that posters must add value to a question?
No, I didn't add value to your question. I thought your question was, as I said, "A question with no answer."
The capper is that now you come back and say ,"I believe the answer to my question is no and in the end any system/pattern can work effectively even if one system/pattern is based upon provable science and others aren't."
Why ask the question in the first place?
I give up.
A question with no answer is possible or the answer is no? Big difference. I asked the question because I want to know what other people think. Just because I have my own opinion of the answer doesn't mean it won't change.
Why ask why?????
So you make valueless posts just to be difficult?????
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softconsult
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Jim, I just think in general that someone with better athletic skills has a better chance.
Surely not a guarantee by any stretch of the imagination.
Here's a question for you instructors. I assume that skills learned in playing baseball, football, basketball in one's youth is helpful in learning golf. In other words, if you never learned to throw side arm to 1st base, or throw a pitch, you will have to learn the foot work, throwing motion from scratch.
For more than 20 years Physical Education has not been a requirement, and more kids spend their free time on their computers versus sandlot baseball. As these, people now start learning golf, is it obvious they don't have these skills?
Just curious.
Surely not a guarantee by any stretch of the imagination.
Here's a question for you instructors. I assume that skills learned in playing baseball, football, basketball in one's youth is helpful in learning golf. In other words, if you never learned to throw side arm to 1st base, or throw a pitch, you will have to learn the foot work, throwing motion from scratch.
For more than 20 years Physical Education has not been a requirement, and more kids spend their free time on their computers versus sandlot baseball. As these, people now start learning golf, is it obvious they don't have these skills?
Just curious.
ZAP
New
As a physical education teacher I have to say a few things.
1. PE has in general been pushed to the back burner and in many places has become a babysitting service so regular teachers can have a planning period. Some of that is the fault of complacent PE teachers and some of it is plain old school politics.
2. Today's students in general are not interested in learning sports skills.....they are interested in making highlight plays.
3. PE specials schedules allow for a PE teacher to see a given class at the grade school level 5-7 days a month on average unless the district mandates daily PE. Tell me what you can teach a kid when you see them 1/4 th of a month.
4. As long as I am on my soapbox the USA better get off their ass and do something major to get kids more active or we will all turn into mush.
Don't ask me what any of this has to do with this thread topic.
1. PE has in general been pushed to the back burner and in many places has become a babysitting service so regular teachers can have a planning period. Some of that is the fault of complacent PE teachers and some of it is plain old school politics.
2. Today's students in general are not interested in learning sports skills.....they are interested in making highlight plays.
3. PE specials schedules allow for a PE teacher to see a given class at the grade school level 5-7 days a month on average unless the district mandates daily PE. Tell me what you can teach a kid when you see them 1/4 th of a month.
4. As long as I am on my soapbox the USA better get off their ass and do something major to get kids more active or we will all turn into mush.
Don't ask me what any of this has to do with this thread topic.
softconsult
New
"So you make valueless posts just to be difficult?????"
Value is in the eye of the reader. I'll take my chances!
Have a nice day.
Value is in the eye of the reader. I'll take my chances!
Have a nice day.
duckjr78
New
We remember all the greats as great putters, but can we really say that? I mean, each part of the game is so linked together, how can we really seperate any one aspect. I do agree that to be an all time great, you have to hole a lot of putts. But, you could simply hit the ball closer to the hole (Hogan) and become a better putter than your peers that way.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
GIRs dont even come close to telling the story. The circumstances vs thought process is never evaluated before a shot. Proximity to the hole is better but even that doesnt factor in the players going for the center leading a tourney. What about greens in reg on thursday vs sunday? Near the lead or dew sweeper? Major championship or phoenix?
The players and caddies are the only ones who know who the best ballstrikers are.
The players and caddies are the only ones who know who the best ballstrikers are.
chipingguru
New
How about 73 top tens in majors?
Must have had a pretty good pattern, whatever that is. Does it mean anything in terms of joe six pack 15 handicapper - I think not.
Must have had a pretty good pattern, whatever that is. Does it mean anything in terms of joe six pack 15 handicapper - I think not.
What stat would you use to compare patterns? If no stat, how would you compare patterns to determine which is the most effecitve at the touring level?
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I would never use a stat to indicate how GOOD a ball striker is, only stats for how bad they are. I like the eyeball test for that.
Again, you have to be out there to know who they are.
David Duval in '98-'99 was hands down the best ballstriker in the world. Same with Nick Price in '93-'94. It would be interesting to see stats from those years to see how he ranked.
Faldo prob never blew you away with stats in the late 80's but could hit any shot with any traj/curve under Sunday Major pressure. So some has to do with the swing and alot has to do with the person and whats inside. I'm not terribly impressed with range rats and the ballhitting prowess on the range.
Again, you have to be out there to know who they are.
David Duval in '98-'99 was hands down the best ballstriker in the world. Same with Nick Price in '93-'94. It would be interesting to see stats from those years to see how he ranked.
Faldo prob never blew you away with stats in the late 80's but could hit any shot with any traj/curve under Sunday Major pressure. So some has to do with the swing and alot has to do with the person and whats inside. I'm not terribly impressed with range rats and the ballhitting prowess on the range.
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