Peter Kostis - Wow

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Lifter

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I just saw an outrageous Kostis Swingvision analysis. Hunter Mahan on the 18th hole at Pebble. Kostis explained that Mahan was "flipping" the clubhead in order to "save" it, resulting in an exit that in his opinion was too low. Nothing could be further from the truth. Wonderfully stable clubhead after impact. The exit was Hoganesque.

I just filmed it and put it on YouTube:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8lKDe9Aclw[/media]
 
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Damon Lucas

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I think Hunter does a similiar, if not better, job in matching the right components with respect to what your other thread alluded to, Kevin. Yes?
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Didn't Dr Zick say something along the lines of once you're well into the downswing it's physically impossible to conscienously make any alterations to the movements already set in motion? Not enough time for the body and brain to communicate, and any feels we get are not until after the ball is already gone.

I've heard older generation pros talk about having the ability to save a shot "at the bottom with their hands." Is that physically possible given the time windows involved?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
mgranato said:
Is that physically possible given the time windows involved?
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No, it's a real vs. feel thing...it is very well possible your BRAIN saved it because it was trying to do something different so essentially you did provoke it to happen but your subconscious did the rest.
 
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finncox

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I'm glad someone started this thread. As someone who considers himself only knowledgeable enough "to be dangerous" when it comes to d-plane, etc., listening to Kostis now just makes me angry. I get that a lot of the golf instruction world is built on describing "feels," but he seems to have no grasp of why certain players' swings produce certain ball flights, etc.

On a side note, Faldo spent a lot of time knocking Marino's pre-shot routine in the coverage I watched. All I could think about the whole time he was mentioning this is: "who the f*$k cares what he does before he swings the club, if he's comfortable, and it repeats." Faldo says some crazy stuff sometimes as well.
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Faldo won the '96 Masters BECAUSE his pre shot routine was SO tuned! If you remember that week, Greg Norman shot 63 the first day, played great, was swinging great, and could not close, because his routine was substandard compared to Faldo's.

With respect to the commentary, Faldo, like everybody else, is entitled to his opinion. Maybe it(routine) isn't significant when one is chasing their first victory, or, maybe it is. Either way, ignore his swing mechanics' dissertations if you like, but IMO, he was the gold standard for the mental game of golf from about '87 to '96, and possibly one of the best of all time, and as such, when he speaks about a related subject, I for one might be inclined to pull my chair in a little bit!
 
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BIGBALL

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Damon Lucas said:
Faldo won the '96 Masters BECAUSE his pre shot routine was SO tuned! If you remember that week, Greg Norman shot 63 the first day, played great, was swinging great, and could not close, because his routine was substandard compared to Faldo's.

With respect to the commentary, Faldo, like everybody else, is entitled to his opinion. Maybe it(routine) isn't significant when one is chasing their first victory, or, maybe it is. Either way, ignore his swing mechanics' dissertations if you like, but IMO, he was the gold standard for the mental game of golf from about '87 to '96, and possibly one of the best of all time, and as such, when he speaks about a related subject, I for one might be inclined to pull my chair in a little bit!
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I agree Damon. I find myself one of the few who actually like listening to Faldo - for the most part. He was mentally tough - and that's one of the traits I put higher than most others in a person.
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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I have a hard time calling it a 'hard job' compared to Joe Schmoe who hangs drywall for a living or runs towards a building that is on fire when everybody else is running away from it.

I mean, there's some perspective here.

I think all Kostis really has to do is to go to the instructor and ask what they teach and why they teach it. Sorta like a football announcer talking to the head coaches before the game to get an idea of what their general gameplan is going to be going into the game.

If Kostis notices some things about the swing...fine. But to me that's a risk he's making and otherwise, it's announcing golf. And Kostis gets paid big bucks to do it.







3JACK
 
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Lifter

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Oh yeah, Mahan has a coach! Say what you will about Foley, you have to concede that he certainly hasn't wrecked Mahan's beautiful golf swing.
 
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mickeym1

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Well said 3Jack. Just go ask his coach what it is they are working on or trying to maintain and comment on that.

I've done a few TV spots and all the producers are looking for is a 80/20 entertainment/technical split on info. I didn't like it but they said you loose the audience if it is more on the technical side, but at least get the small technical part right! Two weeks ago in Phoenix, I think it was Costis, said "this putt should move a little to his left, the valley is behind him." The valley is freaking 4000 yards away! Impossible and DEAD WRONG!

I send them all thank you cards because as people try these things and they don't work, they call me!:D
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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savydan said:
Talk to 156 players' coaches? Get real guys.
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It's not that hard.

Many teachers work with more than one guy. Some teachers work with more than 10 players.

And what you do is you wait until Saturday and see who is up near the leaderboard, who is likely to get a swingvision shot and talk to that teacher...if you haven't talked to that teacher before.

Foley should've been talked to a long time ago as Justin Rose and Hunter Mahan both won twice. And I believe Kostis has talked to Foley, but decided to do his own thing, which is fine if you know what you're talking about.

But it's not a hard job. It's not even a hard job by sports announcing standards.





3JACK
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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mickeym1 said:
Well said 3Jack. Just go ask his coach what it is they are working on or trying to maintain and comment on that.

Two weeks ago in Phoenix, I think it was Costis, said "this putt should move a little to his left, the valley is behind him." The valley is freaking 4000 yards away! Impossible and DEAD WRONG!
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I love that.

It's one of the places where gravity is overrun by the valley.

Please?!
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Faldo's alright, to me. He's got a sense of humour, has "been there before", and generally is a good golf-knowledgeable announcer.

To me he gets a little picky sometimes but that's somewhat his style, and what he did with his game apparently worked well enough for him. There must be stuff to learn. I guess he's got more Majors than me, as well. :rolleyes::)

Pretty sure I'd be more apt to listen to him on the swing than Kostis, though I haven't seen much from either of them aside from PGA broadcasts.
 
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rmartingolf

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Damon Lucas said:
Faldo won the '96 Masters BECAUSE his pre shot routine was SO tuned! If you remember that week, Greg Norman shot 63 the first day, played great, was swinging great, and could not close, because his routine was substandard compared to Faldo's.

With respect to the commentary, Faldo, like everybody else, is entitled to his opinion. Maybe it(routine) isn't significant when one is chasing their first victory, or, maybe it is. Either way, ignore his swing mechanics' dissertations if you like, but IMO, he was the gold standard for the mental game of golf from about '87 to '96, and possibly one of the best of all time, and as such, when he speaks about a related subject, I for one might be inclined to pull my chair in a little bit!
Click to expand...


Maybe we could get "Sir Nick" to explain how we can learn to "fire" our rotator cuffs. ;)

There was a time when "Sir Nick" as he demands to be called was as good as anyone that ever stuck a peg in the ground. But his commentary on how the greatest players in the world go about there business leaves me wanting to change channels.

From his description of how to hit a push draw at the Sony Open last year to his description of how Tiger consciously " fire's his rotator cuffs'' just displays his arrogance. I was fortunate enough to work for one of golfs top on course announcers last year and he had some interesting comments about " Sir Nick" .

Not trying to start an argument here, but I loved Jack Nicklaus as a player but he had no business in the broadcast booth. JMO
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
rmartingolf said:
Maybe we could get "Sir Nick" to explain how we can learn to "fire" our rotator cuffs. ;)

There was a time when "Sir Nick" as he demands to be called was as good as anyone that ever stuck a peg in the ground. But his commentary on how the greatest players in the world go about there business leaves me wanting to change channels.

From his description of how to hit a push draw at the Sony Open last year to his description of how Tiger consciously " fire's his rotator cuffs'' just displays his arrogance. I was fortunate enough to work for one of golfs top on course announcers last year and he had some interesting comments about " Sir Nick" .

Not trying to start an argument here, but I loved Jack Nicklaus as a player but he had no business in the broadcast booth. JMO
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I hear you!

I think that it is dictated to him that he commentates on a certain level, and that he struggles to verbalize what he is trying to say for the intended audience. Not saying whether he is capable of more or not, just that he is trained to think purely for his own benefit, rather than any audience, possibly like Jack as you say.

My inference was that he should be listened to on things like routine, and, as I found out tonight, on the technical aspects of club design, but mostly for the average pundit, they're not highly interesting topics.
 
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