PGA is it history..?

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torvine

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I dont want to appear to be against the PGA, after all its great to have a body governing any sport.

BUT....

If I pay hard earnt money to visit a PGA qualified instructor I should expect a high level of instruction. As I expect a lot will agree most people visit a PGA qualified instruction an receive conflicting and to be honest bad instruction.

I visit Brian Manzella . com and receive immediate improvement. I know Brian is PGA qualified but I guess his instruction is based upon:

A great understanding
A knowledge on how to teach
Enthusiasm

And NOT a PGA badge.

I am not sucking up to Brian, as I am sure there are many others suppressed by the cloak and big brother attitude of the PGA.

I would spend good money to someone that can teach NOT what they have on their business card.
 
otto6457

otto6457

New
That's exactly why I travel across the country to work with Brian. I can get a golf lesson a lot closer to home. But I can't get the golf education that I get from Brian.

The man is flat out the best teacher I have ever worked with.
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Great posts gentlemen. The PGA boys club brotherhood blocks any attempt fo the masses to recieve practical correct instruction(in fact it is actually threatened by it). You are both privillidged as I am to be exposed to this. So lap it up!
 
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soonerfan85

New
The first thing you need to understand is that being a member of the PGA isn't solely based on one's ability to teach. Gaining PGA membership is based on one's ability to master the knowledge of golf facility operation. It is more or less a secondary business degree. I do agree with you that the PGA's instruction curriculum is pretty horrid. It is mostly based on what Brian would call magazine instruction. This is one upgrade that the PGA desperately needs. However, becoming a PGA professional is no easy task. The tests are fairly difficult and about 60% to 70% are able to pass Level One.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
The PGA wants their members to be as diverse as possible, having knowledge in every area of the game, from agronomy to cart maintenence to tourn ops, etc. While good in theory, it definately leaves the professional less time/education to become an expert in a certain field such as teaching. That's why i think soon you will see the PGA guys gravitate toward GM/Manager type jobs and guys like Brian taking up instructional positions. It better happen that way because the level of instruction - as a whole, mind you- is pretty weak among PGA members.
 
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torvine

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I have NO doubt that PGA professionals work VERY hard to attain PGA status, and some may be very good teachers.

My point is PGA status does not guarantee you will receive good tuition.
 
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drewitgolf

New
There will always be those that rise to the top in any profession: doctors, lawyers, accountants, salesmen, teachers... Your job is to find those individuals that expect more from themselves than what the status quo does. Just like choosing your school to further your education, the responsibility rest on your shoulders to make the right decision.
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
Sure there is good and bad in all professions. Pros kiss babies, shake hands and in general listen to stories from members about shot by shot round reviews that are just boring and nobody else would listen to. However the cart fleet maintainance guy cant teach a lick and nore should he be expected to. The real problem is even the so called career teachers are 99% awful, as the PGA cant help them and or they cant help themselves. If the cart maintainance pro, or the merchandiser pro was as bad in his field as the specialist teacher pro all the carts would break down all day long and all the shirts in the shop would still be there from the 1980's stock inventory.

The public are so poorly educated on what is a lesson how to improve etc. that they usually have to make all the mistakes of visiting bad teachers until the smart ones work it out and stumble across guys like Brian- THE REAL PROFESSIONAL & EXPERT.:cool:
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I wonder to a degree how long they can keep competing when there is superior stuff out there. (instruction-wise)

I mean..........when Brian gets out (of his "cage")..............I mean................I know there is a lot of BS to cut thorough.................

But how long can people keep selling misinformation and myths? Soon enough.......

...like Brian says:

"All the science and research is gonna blow up anything that's incorrect..........and if you stand still you are gonna get left in the dust."

And I don't see how it can't happen at some point. Enough is enough really...

I mean.........not all of it is purposely bad or dishonest...................cause there are people that are for sure trying.........but there's so many theories out there...........and so much junk...........

BLECH.

It can be frustrating to see people pushing some of it.

(Gives you more golfers to fix tho Brian? :D)
 
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birdie_man

birdie_man

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My point is PGA status does not guarantee you will receive good tuition.
Click to expand...

Yup.........and that's all you can really say..........as a bottom line.

And that "it's a business." (dollar dollar bill y'all.....heh...:cool::rolleyes:)

But......I mean......

Stuff like "The Ball Flight Laws" though.........I mean for real...............they need to get on changing this.
 
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drewitgolf

New
I have been a PGA Member for over twenty years, been President of my Chapter, Education Chairman, Junior Golf Chairman, etc, etc. While I am proud of what my organization does to promote the game of golf, what we do for instruction is trains "public defenders". It is up to the individual pro to further his or her education. The oportunities are there if they decide to persue them. Golf Pros that become A.I.'s receive recertification points toward their PGA membership. The PGA does not discount TGM, but it is up to each professional to focus on the area that they feel will best advance their career goals.

Regarding instruction, if a public defender is all you can afford; so be it. If you want good representation, look arround. No one has a gun to your head. Interview your pro, ask questions, get referals, do some research, just like you would if you are going to trial. Take responsibility for your own actions. Otherwise, you may not be happy with the verdict.
 
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drewitgolf

New
torvine said:
"Take responsibility for your own actions"

Then why look for a PGA qualified instructor..?
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If you mean a PGA Member then you will at the very least get an instructor whose has been exposed to golf instruction and has some level of training, which is better than someone who has no training at all that calls themselves a golf professional. PGA Members are "general practicioners" that often do more than just golf instruction. Many later become "specialists". The bottom line is if you want results and you are not getting them, look for someone different. You may not be getting the results you want with a particular instructor, but the next guy over might be. There are options.
 
Steve Khatib

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
PGA Workings from the inside out

drewitgolf said:
I have been a PGA Member for over twenty years, been President of my Chapter, Education Chairman, Junior Golf Chairman, etc, etc. While I am proud of what my organization does to promote the game of golf, what we do for instruction is trains "public defenders". It is up to the individual pro to further his or her education. The oportunities are there if they decide to persue them. Golf Pros that become A.I.'s receive recertification points toward their PGA membership. The PGA does not discount TGM, but it is up to each professional to focus on the area that they feel will best advance their career goals.

Regarding instruction, if a public defender is all you can afford; so be it. If you want good representation, look arround. No one has a gun to your head. Interview your pro, ask questions, get referals, do some research, just like you would if you are going to trial. Take responsibility for your own actions. Otherwise, you may not be happy with the verdict.
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Mr Drewit,
with all due respect what was achieved in your chapter during your presidency? How do Chapters work in getting things done and improving the section and then the PGA as a whole?

You seem very knowledgeable and an AI so you must be self motivated. Did you come up against a lot of back slapping politics. Why does the PGA do so little when it has the potential to do so much good with the right direction.
They continue to percieve TGM as a method and not incorporate it into their very limited cirriculum.
 
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drewitgolf

New
four barrels said:
Mr Drewit,
with all due respect what was achieved in your chapter during your presidency? How do Chapters work in getting things done and improving the section and then the PGA as a whole?

You seem very knowledgeable and an AI so you must be self motivated. Did you come up against a lot of back slapping politics. Why does the PGA do so little when it has the potential to do so much good with the right direction.
They continue to percieve TGM as a method and not incorporate it into their very limited cirriculum.
Click to expand...

That is a long and complex question. I am not sure you want me to go into balancing the budget, setting schedules, meetings, etc. Each Chapter runs its own programs and is fairly exclusive to the Section as long as there isn't conflict (usually scheduling issues). The Chapter has the most direct influence on its membership albeit on a local level.

In regard to instruction, I felt that I had the most influence, not as President, but when I became involved on the education side. For example, last year I co-ran a chapter teaching summit where David Orr (also PGA and A.I.) and I presented on TGM. I gave the presentation on the information and explanation and David did live lessons on the application. While attendance was not mandatory, those in attendance where exposed to information that they didn't have before. What they do with that information is up to them. We may not be able to change the national PGA directly, but we are having an impact on the local level, which may eventually have a trickle up effect. I would hope that any A.I. would be willing to help elevate the standards of the profession at the chapter level. It is in the best interest of the membership and the golf industry as a whole. Just like making a swing change, change takes time.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
drewitgolf said:
I have been a PGA Member for over twenty years, been President of my Chapter, Education Chairman, Junior Golf Chairman, etc, etc. While I am proud of what my organization does to promote the game of golf, what we do for instruction is trains "public defenders". It is up to the individual pro to further his or her education. The oportunities are there if they decide to persue them. Golf Pros that become A.I.'s receive recertification points toward their PGA membership. The PGA does not discount TGM, but it is up to each professional to focus on the area that they feel will best advance their career goals.

Regarding instruction, if a public defender is all you can afford; so be it. If you want good representation, look arround. No one has a gun to your head. Interview your pro, ask questions, get referals, do some research, just like you would if you are going to trial. Take responsibility for your own actions. Otherwise, you may not be happy with the verdict.
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Excellent post! Just like Jerry Seinfeld said..."Everyone always knows a guy who's the best; the best doctor the best lawyer but the reality is that some of these people are graduating at the bottom of the class."

So my advice? Don't go to the ones who graduated near the bottom lol
 
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