PGA tour qualification

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This issue may be out of place for this forum, but I need some help. I am an attorney and I have a client investor who wants to put up some cash to sponsor an up-and-coming professional golfer. I meet with him later this week for our initial consultation. My first goal is to have a productive initial meeting. Then I need to do some background research to help me draft up a contract. Do any of you guys have experience in this area, either as a player or a financer? I need to think of the terms that would need to be covered in a contract between the golfer and the investor. Also, how does one get on the PGA tour-- Is q-school the main way or are qualifier tournaments the route? Basically, if you knew of a golf phenom that had no money and wanted to go on tour, but needed some cash to finance that endeavor, how much would it take to get him started and what kind of return on the investment would be standard in the industry?

Any help would be appreciated.

Arch
 

matt

New
Q-School is about $5,000 to enter (I think). You have to make it through the first 2 stages, and then if you make it to the final stage you are at least guaranteed conditional status on the Nationwide Tour.

Other than that, you could finish in the top X (15 or 20) on the Nationwide Tour money list. But first you need to get on the Nationwide Tour. Or you could use your allowed maximum of 8 (I think) sponsor's exemptions to earn as much money as the #125 player on the previous year's PGA Tour money list. You need to be popular to get in this way though...no way a PGA Tour tournament is giving a no-namer with no credentials a sponsor's exemption.
 
Stupid way to phrase it, but if I had a magic potion that made me the best golfer on the planet for one month, could I actually get into a PGA tour event to take advantage of that ability before it expired?
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Archie....the only way you could get to play in a PGA event, not a nationwide, is if the potential investor and/or potential golfer had some BIG TIME CORPORATE connections and he was given sponsor exemptions, otherwise the answer is no.

Also i believe the easiest way to get on the PGA tour is to go to Q-school (entry fee is $3000 i believe) and then you have to be in the top 30 after the 5 rounds.

To be able to play in a nationwide tour event the golfer can do what's called "monday qualifiers" and get in. Then based where they finished the tournament will determine their fate at the next tournament

hope that helps some
 
There are still Qualifiers for most events. Usually only 2 to 4 spots are available. The P.G.A. Tour website probably has some of this information.
 
That helps me answer that issue. But now I still need insight on how to structure the investment side of the transaction. For instance, if the investor put up $50,000 for the golfer to take a stab at tour play, would it be a reasonable for the golfer to split 50% of all his winnings for, say, the next 3 years? How are these arrangements usually structured. Or is this atypical? Or is the investor usually a close relative who really has no reasonable expectation of recouping his investment? How much capital would the golfer need to play mini-tour events every weekend?
 

rwh

New
Arch,

Does the client have a particular golfer in mind, or does he just have the idea that he wants to "invest" in a golfer that he is going to find? In my opinion, the chance of getting any return on the $50K is small. The really good young players have already been identified and hooked up with the major sponsers. The rest of the guys who are trying it on the mini-tours and weekly qualifiers, while very good players, are not likely to make it to the Nationwide or the PGA Tour. I would advise the client against it.
 
RWH,

$15K is the real investment here. I used $50K as a hypothetical. And yes, he does have a golfer in mind. The golfer has been on mini-tours before. How much $$$ does it take to make it on the mini-tours for a year?

Arch
 

matt

New
quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

How much $$$ does it take to make it on the mini-tours for a year?

A lot.

Hooters Tour events are something like $400 to TRY to open qualify, then another $400ish if you actually do. Then, you're not guaranteed to even win back that $800 unless you finish pretty high in the tournament. So about $800 per tourney...plus travel, lodging, meals. It adds up quick. The mini-tours are not very profitable at all.
 

dude

New
Arch,

Don't post or visit here often but this one caught my eye. The structuring of the contract can be done several ways. It really comes down to the needs of the player.

On one occasion we had a player, will not mention any names, who turned pro in the early 80's. The player received $100,000 seed money. Due to his needs, no payback was made until he could buy himself totally out. This did not happen, for example, when he made his first 100k. It took several years on tour before he was able to be clear of his debt. In the interim, there became an earning point where there was a cut taken out of the players earnings. At the end of the day, there were a few bucks made off of earnings and a small interest off the investment. The risk in this case was still quite high though the player had earned his card already.

On another occasion, a player was handled quite differently. Player had not earned his card. We sponsored him on a weekly basis that he played in a tournament. This began at a very early stage of him trying to make it. He began, like it sounds like your example is beginning, on small tournamnets, trying to qualify in Golden Bear Tour, and Caddillac Tour, just to name a few. When it came to Q-School, yep, the big check was written. This particular player began at stage one. So with expenses it did become a pretty good size check. Onward, Those weeks he played he received entry fee, and all expenses for that week. The cuts were handled quite differently. At the end of the day, this proposition was a loser with what was invested but, it was way to much fun.

There are a couple of other scenarios but I will not bore you with them. The main thing is that few, even with a tour card in hand, have sponsorship from club or shirt companies, etc. Example is the first one I mentioned. Yes he got free clubs when he signed with the mfg., and yes he got some free shirts when he signed his shirt deal but, as far as dollars in pocket, can you say McDonalds? LOL!

It truly comes down to the parties communicating. The investor needs to realize that he might as well take the money and roll the dice in Vegas. Investor should go into the deal with expectations of getting zero back. But, it can be a whole bunch of fun traveling to certain tournaments, eating with the players, hanging out, etc. Communication between the 2 parties and then write it up according to what they land on. There is no 1 way or 1 contract that covers all of the scenarios.

Hope this helps a little.

golfingrandy
 
Archie,
Every Monday at every PGA Tour event, they have an 18 hole qualifier with a few open spots. It is a few hundred dollars to enter and the low score(s) get in. I have heard that it costs $100,000 and up per year for a player to attempt playing professionally. To live decent and have enough money for expenses and travel, it is probably near $300,000 per year.
 

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

Goflingrady,

Without revealing client confidences, I don't think the investor will be touring with the golfer. He just wants to give him $15K in exchange for 50% of the guys winnings for 1 year</u>. I guess its like spinning the roullette wheel.

Arch


There's your contract.
 

rwh

New
Arch,

Your question reminds me of Lee Trevino's advice about backing a player. Trevino said to take the player to 5 golf courses that he's never played before. If he can break par on those courses, then you can consider backing him; if he can't break par, dump him.
 

dude

New
quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

Goflingrady,

Without revealing client confidences, I don't think the investor will be touring with the golfer. He just wants to give him $15K in exchange for 50% of the guys winnings for 1 year. I guess its like spinning the roullette wheel.

Arch

As rwh stated, theres the terms. Also, the odds in Vegas are much better. ;) Thus, my comments of the perks and fun the investor can have.

Since it sounds like you are representing the investor, I think it would be wise for the player to put some numbers on a piece of paper. Look at the cost of Q-School alone. How many tournamnets in a year with what the average entry fee. Example: Most small tours are $500 and up just on entry fees (This depends on 1 or 2 day events)entry fees. Small Tour series usually begin about $13,000 +. Also, this does not include Q-School which starts a $4k.

Above is just some more info. Hope it helps just a tad bit.

golfingrandy
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I know if you look at the Hooters Tour website if you are a declared professional you have to pay $1500 to join the tour and $750 to enter every tournament. They also can help players get setup with host families to save on costs.

they also provide LD contests and clinics to help with some extra cash. Honestly if he has 15,000 to invest send him to a financial planner and invest the money in the market, he'll get at least 10% over time.
 
So around $800 entry per event and food, lodging and plane ticket would make every week event around $1500. The golfer is to match the investor dollar for dollar, so that gets us $30,000 to play 20 events. If the golfer is top 10 in 5 of those, what kind of payouts can he expect?
 
Many years ago I was personally involved with financing two tour hopefuls, not at the same time. I knew both personally and the decision was more emotional than hoping to make a gain.
In the 1st. case the young man was a friend, attended U. of Tx., was S.W. conference player of year (medalist) his senior year. His father and I were his only (equal) contributors. We provided enough money for him to compete for one year on a Fl. mini tour. About $20,000/30,000 in todays evaluation-then $12,000. (as I remember something like 20 tournaments).
Strange/funny/hilarious things happened. He missed money by one stroke in 1st. tournament. Same in 2nd. however was penalized for moving/taking a drop from behind cedar tree/yardage marker. (1st tournament was legal to get line of sight and 2 club lengths) (maybe one?) but 2nd. tournament allowed only distance relief-not line of sight. Of course he was depressed!
Third tournament he was in 10th. place as he played #15 on the last day. Unfortunately he had a terrible stomach problem that day and had to leave course for bathroom! Eliminated. (twice).
He decided tournament golf wasn't for him, I got all my money back as he stuck his dad for most of his contribution. For many years hence he has managed sports figures, lives in Ca., some tour players, makes big bucks.
The other player was a local favorite, we belonged to same CC, he had won some T's., one the Ga. Open. Several members put up $'s in $5000 increments, about $50,000. He is still on a mini tour and has played a lot on Nationwide.
Contracts:
In the 1st. case was pretty loose but I expected to make big bucks if he was successful over the long haul. Don't remember the exact details but got a big percentage of winnings after expenses the 1st year. Once all investment was returned my percentage after expenses, each succeding year, was one a decending scale-% for X # of $'s up to say $10,000, the less % of next $10,00 and so on.
In the 2nd. case ( I had no input!) there was a one year contract, each year there were new investors. (right of 1st. refusal). I got back about 10% of my investment and declined to participate the 2nd. year. Have no idea how subsequent investors have faired.
Hope your guy is doing it for fun!
 
Great input from you guys. Now.......what if we make up for the high risk element by massaging some of the percentages. Roullette is a bad game because there are 38 slots, but the payoff is 35:1. Those 2 extra green slots are the house advantage. If roullette paid 45:1, I would quit my job and play it all day...SOOOOOO.... let's say this guy puts up the $15K in exchange for 75% of the winnings for two years. Perhaps that would decrease the risk element. But the golfer may say, #$^%&*(* THAT! But I don't represent him.

Arch
 

dude

New
quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

Great input from you guys. Now.......what if we make up for the high risk element by massaging some of the percentages. Roullette is a bad game because there are 38 slots, but the payoff is 35:1. Those 2 extra green slots are the house advantage. If roullette paid 45:1, I would quit my job and play it all day...SOOOOOO.... let's say this guy puts up the $15K in exchange for 75% of the winnings for two years. Perhaps that would decrease the risk element. But the golfer may say, #$^%&*(* THAT! But I don't represent him.

Arch

Have the player call me. :D;)
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I think the most important thing is to EVALUATE the player.

Twice in my Louisville tenure, I was asked to a players TOUR capabilities.

Both times I told them NO WAY....both guys are now club pros.

;)
 
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