Gibby, I chuckled too...and agree there's no pinching going on here and compression is on or at the equator. But as noted by you that it is on a tee and therefore the ground has no chance to have an effect
Mashie72
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Pinch/trap it between the clubface and the turf?
- Thread starter Gibby
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Gibby, I chuckled too...and agree there's no pinching going on here and compression is on or at the equator. But as noted by you that it is on a tee and therefore the ground has no chance to have an effect
Mashie72
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Well, the video doesn't lie. But why is it that it feels like you're trapping it against the ground when hitting a good shot? Just curious.
Because you have been told you have and the "sound" you are feeling the resistance of the ground while taking a divot
benhogan55
New
Where's Mandarin when you need him?
Vicious Circle
New
Where's Mandrin when you need him?
Hopefully working on something useful for golfers and not trying to de-bunk a garbage myth that has absolutely no supporting evidence to begin with.
And in real life that only happens when contact is made with leading edge.You would have to have a club with negative loft to compress a ball, even slightly, against whatever it is lying on.
Ball deformation during impact may cause some downward force with a low lofted club, but that's probably not very significant. You can see this in some Swingvision driver shots as ball pushes tee a bit to the ground.
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Well, the video doesn't lie. But why is it that it feels like you're trapping it against the ground when hitting a good shot? Just curious.
Because you are. Proper impact doesnt feel that way. It is much cleaner and the divot is starting much further ahead. If it feels that way to you, your swing bottom still needs to be more forward. I guarantee if you used a tee with no height at all (just a reference to where the ball was sitting) and cut a divot that started a half inch or so ahead of the tee without dislodging it, impact wouldnt feel that way.
Some comments and questions.
When I was overcoming my flipping tendencies, I overcompensated and started trying to hit everything with a ton of shaft lean, which resulted in trying to play a lot of big sweeping uncontrollable hooks, for the most part. But the contact felt SOOOOO much better, and it sounded a lot better, too. In some ways, those shots with a lot lean, which I was never able to control (I guess because I couldn't make the necessary clubface changes to match up with severe shaft lean?) actually sound and feel more solid than my much more effective SD pattern shots in which I use less lean and curve the ball much less. Maybe it's because you are hitting the ball with a slightly different part of the clubface when you use a lot of lean?
When I was overcoming my flipping tendencies, I overcompensated and started trying to hit everything with a ton of shaft lean, which resulted in trying to play a lot of big sweeping uncontrollable hooks, for the most part. But the contact felt SOOOOO much better, and it sounded a lot better, too. In some ways, those shots with a lot lean, which I was never able to control (I guess because I couldn't make the necessary clubface changes to match up with severe shaft lean?) actually sound and feel more solid than my much more effective SD pattern shots in which I use less lean and curve the ball much less. Maybe it's because you are hitting the ball with a slightly different part of the clubface when you use a lot of lean?
guilty
Well, the describes me to a T. I have a hard time taking a divot that doesn't start right under the ball. I'm coming at the ball from too much inside, although working on NHA is helping somewhat with this. Any other tips on getting the bottom of the swing more forward? I sometimes put a towel down flat about 1 1/2" behind the ball. This tells me what I'm doing wrong when I clip it, but doesn't help much with doing it right. On the shots when I do manage to take a divot in front of the ball, I often find myself doing an unintentional Gary Player move and end up walking toward the target (although without the Gary Player results).
Because you are. Proper impact doesnt feel that way. It is much cleaner and the divot is starting much further ahead. If it feels that way to you, your swing bottom still needs to be more forward. I guarantee if you used a tee with no height at all (just a reference to where the ball was sitting) and cut a divot that started a half inch or so ahead of the tee without dislodging it, impact wouldnt feel that way.
Well, the describes me to a T. I have a hard time taking a divot that doesn't start right under the ball. I'm coming at the ball from too much inside, although working on NHA is helping somewhat with this. Any other tips on getting the bottom of the swing more forward? I sometimes put a towel down flat about 1 1/2" behind the ball. This tells me what I'm doing wrong when I clip it, but doesn't help much with doing it right. On the shots when I do manage to take a divot in front of the ball, I often find myself doing an unintentional Gary Player move and end up walking toward the target (although without the Gary Player results).
Swinging more left helped me. The way I got it to work was to use SD backswing, making sure that right elbow stays above left, little bit steeper shoulder turn, more centered. I still need to have the feeling that the right elbow keeps on flying a bit, otherwise I get easily under plane.Well, the describes me to a T. I have a hard time taking a divot that doesn't start right under the ball. I'm coming at the ball from too much inside, although working on NHA is helping somewhat with this. Any other tips on getting the bottom of the swing more forward? I sometimes put a towel down flat about 1 1/2" behind the ball. This tells me what I'm doing wrong when I clip it, but doesn't help much with doing it right. On the shots when I do manage to take a divot in front of the ball, I often find myself doing an unintentional Gary Player move and end up walking toward the target (although without the Gary Player results).
Before the only way to get good contact was compensating by swaying forward starting down, resulting in deep divots.
It's funny how much better ball flight is now and how effortless the contact feels the same time.
To concur, the ball in a good swing is long gone before any contact with the ground or tee on any surface. Just look at the swingvisions on you tube. Its as plain as day.
Well..... it is a little embarrassing to admit that no pinch/trap is occurring. I've seen a few Swingvisions of iron shots before but apparently "missed it" until I took a closer look.
My divots tend to be pretty beefy (but in the right spot)...... the image of shallowing them out might be a good thing for me.
Robbo
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Well, the describes me to a T. I have a hard time taking a divot that doesn't start right under the ball. I'm coming at the ball from too much inside, although working on NHA is helping somewhat with this. Any other tips on getting the bottom of the swing more forward? I sometimes put a towel down flat about 1 1/2" behind the ball. This tells me what I'm doing wrong when I clip it, but doesn't help much with doing it right. On the shots when I do manage to take a divot in front of the ball, I often find myself doing an unintentional Gary Player move and end up walking toward the target (although without the Gary Player results).
Without seeing your swing, I'd say working on a really correct, effective counterfall with your tailbone far enough forward (without yourcenter getting too much ahead) moves the swing bottom pretty well.
it is uncanny how often discussions on here match exactly what i've been thinking about. a few weeks ago i changed golf clubs. i moved from a course near the sea with very little grass cover and hard ground to a course that has a lot of very spongy grass with a soft sand base. in these new conditions i feel no resistance at all from the turf whereas before i was virtually hitting it straight off the hard ground on every shot. the grass was very weak on the old course so the ball didn't sit up on it.
anyway, at my new club my irons are higher and with more spin (and i don't like this) while before i had a medium ball flight with which i felt i could really go at flags. i have been trying to hit it lower off the thick spongy turf but have actually started hitting it higher and higher. i'm now convinced that this is because i'm getting steeper and steeper trying to recapture that ball turf feeling but in effect just putting more backspin on the ball. i'd guess that i didn't hit this high spinning shot at my old course because if i got as steep as i am now i would probably break my wrists.
while i think shallowing out my strike will lower my ball flight once more i still doubt that it will give me the lower trajectory wedge shots to the extent i used to play with. i wonder if this is due to the bounce on wedge shots interacting with the turf? instead of striking the ball and then taking a divot the bounce allows an extra moment of compression as the club glides along the turf instead of into it. this phenomena certainly seems to take place more often with a firmer lie. or is it simply that on that firmer lie the entire ball is exposed and you can really nip under it and hit the bottom dimple while on a spongy lie it is sitting down ever so slightly so you can't get as much clubface on ball. i suspect a bit of both.
i think the same thing happens on an upslope where you're scared of hitting it too high so try and mash the ball into the slope and end up hitting it much higher than you would have if you followed the slope.
anyway, at my new club my irons are higher and with more spin (and i don't like this) while before i had a medium ball flight with which i felt i could really go at flags. i have been trying to hit it lower off the thick spongy turf but have actually started hitting it higher and higher. i'm now convinced that this is because i'm getting steeper and steeper trying to recapture that ball turf feeling but in effect just putting more backspin on the ball. i'd guess that i didn't hit this high spinning shot at my old course because if i got as steep as i am now i would probably break my wrists.
while i think shallowing out my strike will lower my ball flight once more i still doubt that it will give me the lower trajectory wedge shots to the extent i used to play with. i wonder if this is due to the bounce on wedge shots interacting with the turf? instead of striking the ball and then taking a divot the bounce allows an extra moment of compression as the club glides along the turf instead of into it. this phenomena certainly seems to take place more often with a firmer lie. or is it simply that on that firmer lie the entire ball is exposed and you can really nip under it and hit the bottom dimple while on a spongy lie it is sitting down ever so slightly so you can't get as much clubface on ball. i suspect a bit of both.
i think the same thing happens on an upslope where you're scared of hitting it too high so try and mash the ball into the slope and end up hitting it much higher than you would have if you followed the slope.
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