Pitch Elbow

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LiftOff

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Are there any drills that will help ingrain the pitch position? It feels extremely weak, but that's probably because I don't do it. Can someone who does pitch describe the feeling on the downswing? Are you just 'rope' pulling with the left and keeping the elbows together. Seems like a weak wedge structure.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Weak wedge structure?

I'll tell you what, I'll do 150 words on HOW TO get into PITCH POSITION if you tell me why the position of Hogan and Sergio and too many other great players to mention, was "so-called" weak.
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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Brian Manzella said:
I'll tell you what, I'll do 150 words on HOW TO get into PITCH POSITION if you tell me why the position of Hogan and Sergio and too many other great players to mention, was "so-called" weak.
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Is this not just "feels weak" as opposed to "is weak"? In pitch elbow yuo have not used any right hand activity, clubface is "open" ( ie. 90 degrees away from direction of ideal flight) and us right handers are desperate to get that strong right hand into action! hence feels weak.
 
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LiftOff

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Thanks GBD. You are correct. It 'feels' weak. Obviously, it's far from weak, but overcoming the weak feeling......... not easy.

You mentioned the right handers need to control. That is perhaps what I'm struggling with. Trying to move from a hitter to a swinger over the past couple of years. Remnents of the old style die hard.

So Brian, when do we see the essay? ;)

Cliff
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Some may say my opinion is biased here but i feel a "deep pitch elbow" feels very strong.

The deeper it gets the more delay i got and the more whallop that i'm going to put on that ball with LESS EFFORT.
 
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bantamben2

Banned
LiftOff said:
Are there any drills that will help ingrain the pitch position? It feels extremely weak, but that's probably because I don't do it. Can someone who does pitch describe the feeling on the downswing? Are you just 'rope' pulling with the left and keeping the elbows together. Seems like a weak wedge structure.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

How do you cock the left wrist? by the bending of your right elbow. what starts uncocking the left wrist on downswing? the uncocking of right elbow. By uncocking your right elbow to soon on the downswing you will lose distance and control. here is a copy of a post i just did on another topic

I would trust hogan unlike most teachers do and listen to his comments. make a practice swing where you shift your weight left from the top but concentrate on not letting your right elbow uncock you will notice that with that move you can get in hogans pitch positon very easy than enjoy the extra distance and control for the rest of your life and get out there and start improving instead of spending all you time on golf forums. JK
 
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rundmc

Banned
Your "degree" of pitch can also have a lot to do with . . .

a. The degree you maintain your Waistbend through the stroke . . . the better you keep your "posture" the deeper you can lead with the elbow.

b. The selected delivery line (on-line vs. cross-line)
 
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LiftOff

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Bantamben2: Whoa.....now that's a great answer! Just reading it is inspirational. Only someone who does it knows the answer. I'll have to try that at the range and see how I can make that move work.

I understand about the right arm controlling the cocking of the wrist, but when it happens it just happens. I don't 'feel' it happening, being caused by something, like the light pressure I 'feel' of Extensor Action. I don't feel cocking, it just happens, gradually without pressure.

Jim: You have developed the 'feel' of that component which you can identify and use in your swing. The pitch, coupled with your other components I'm sure feels strong. It's just that until I learn to identify and use that component correctly, it feels weak to me. At my advancing age I look forward to "less effort". :D

To either of you: do I start small and work up? Any suggestions on drills to INGRAIN the feeling? When you taught yourself the move, assuming you didn't do it at one time in your development, what/how did you go about it? Will/does it put any pressure or strain on any part of your body? Don't want to ruin myself doing this.

Thanks for your great answers fellas.

Cliff
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Hit one arm wedge shots that draw slightly.

Then once you can do the above consistently and with decent distance slowly add the other arm and just keep using your pivot to whallop that ball.

Note, if you aren't strong/flexible enough to use one arm use 1 arm and a few fingers of the other hand for control.
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

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a drill only...!

another gif floating on the internet geared toward those hogan, Snead, and Nelson wannabes...! I am not sure italian is quite sold on this technique if i recall...

IMO, it's one of the better drills that is helping me to "get it"...use a regular ole club...

to place into words the amount of habit building taking place in that simple motion would take lots of exlaining!




h_mapp_side_clip.gif
 
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LiftOff

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Jim: On re-reading your post, you seem to be saying it is lack of a pull with the left that is causing the elbow to not get into the pitch position. Okay, but then if I 'sneak' the right on after learning to pull more consistently, will the right elbow go to a more 'leading the hands' position into impact? (Currently I do pull with the left, just the right elbow hangs back somewhat.)

Comments?
 
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LiftOff

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tourdeep

"to place into words the amount of habit building taking place in that simple motion would take lots of exlaining!"

Probably why so little is said!

Cliff
 
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davel

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Jim

My understanding was to get the right elbow into pitch position during the transition you keep your hands passive and shift (bump ) your left hip forward which tilts your right shoulder and drops your right arm and elbow into the pitch slot position given you are on the right plane. Is it this lower body pivot move I am describing you are talking about?

dave
 
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LiftOff

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Jim:

"This why you need to train your pivot"

My pivot is pretty active. I don't pull with the arms, but the pivot pulls the entire upper body. I'm just not sure if what I'm doing is what you're doing.

I tried your one arm swing tonight. Actually it was left arm swings with the right hand riding super light along. Also did some with the right hand not on the grip or left hand but sitting "next to" the left hand. (Just keeping it in the vacinity) Was getting lower trajectory and a later release. i.e. divots well after the ball. All I had time for was my eight iron. I can see it will take a couple of weeks to make it my more normal swing, but will pursue looking for the pot of gold in the end.

BTW, with the one arm I'm getting to FULL swivel after both arms straight. Maybe more than full.

As far as training your pivot, is Dave correct?

Cliff
 
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Spike

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bantamben2 said:
How do you cock the left wrist? by the bending of your right elbow. what starts uncocking the left wrist on downswing? the uncocking of right elbow. By uncocking your right elbow to soon on the downswing you will lose distance and control. here is a copy of a post i just did on another topic

I would trust hogan unlike most teachers do and listen to his comments. make a practice swing where you shift your weight left from the top but concentrate on not letting your right elbow uncock you will notice that with that move you can get in hogans pitch positon very easy than enjoy the extra distance and control for the rest of your life and get out there and start improving instead of spending all you time on golf forums. JK
Click to expand...

Bantamben2,

Howdy, just a (selfish) clarification about the "weak feeling". Would it be fair to say that uncocking must be done against something? If there is sufficient lag to uncock against would that create a deeper pitch angle thus giving it a more powerful "feel"?
thanks
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

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I find that it is easy to get into a deep pitch position when I'm using a 10-2-D type grip and make a pretty big back swing where I allow my hips to start the swing and I float load on down.
 
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Spike

New
self-mastery said:
I find that it is easy to get into a deep pitch position when I'm using a 10-2-D type grip and make a pretty big back swing where I allow my hips to start the swing and I float load on down.
Click to expand...

Yeahbuddy. That float loading stuff is some powerful you know what! It is a pretty advanced way to swing tho, wouldn't you say?
 
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