Pivot Action and arm swing - let's talk feels

[oztrainee]

If you are asking a student, when we are trying to move forward, which is the part in our body moves first. 9 out of ten answer would be the leg, foot, knee,etc. But in fact is our upper body move first. And this is how our mind and body coordinate and where the illusion come from.
A lot of people, particularly begineer, when they read a golf magazine or book, if they pick up the word "Pivot action". they will only think of the pivot and totally ignore the hands, and end up the club can not pick up any speed to hit the ball.
If we are talking about handsy, we are addressing

• using the mucsle to move the arm
• zero pivot

On the other hand, as long as we are thinking of swinging the arms, we are already using our pivot effectively. Where the pivot should play a subconcious role rather then giving a direct command to move the pivot. Could we call the "hand controlled pivot" the motor is in the arm and the batteries is in the body.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

You tell a beginner golfer to "swing their arms" and you'll end up with a whooooooooole lot of problems. Also, the golfers with the best pivots already have their hips going towards the target before the end of the backswing.

 

[birdie_man]

Ya...I just tried it and I'd say the first thing that I feel move in the startdown is my left foot. It pushes down on the ground. Weight shift- pressure shift. Simultaniously, my hands drop a few inches. Now, I'm not sure what initiates that move- whether it's the hands or the body- but that's what happens.

I think it's my body shifting towards the target (SLIGHTLY!- it's a subtle move) and my right shoulder going down the turned shoulder plane simultaneously that does it. AND you retain the extension (keep "the string" taught) in your left arm as you do this.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The arms ONLY move first in non-optimum swings.

 

[bts]

With hands-controlled pivot, the pivot/body is supposed to react/respond to the way (pull or push, from where to where and how fast) the hands moving the lagged club.

The lag loaded at transition or starting-down holds the upper body in place briefly the while the lower body is delivering the counter-force/-torque from the ground and appears moving slightly ahead of others, after which the movements of the body parts are in synch and their coordination is much less timing-dependent and easier to be controlled.

With pivot-controlled hands, the upper body, including the hands and club follows the lower body action, which appears moving more ahead of others. So the movements of the body parts is not in synch and their coordination is much more timing-dependent and tougher to be controlled.

Not sure if the arms/hands (and the club) can appear moving ahead of the pivot in either situation.

 

[anakin]

Love BTS post, I think Mr. Kelley love Hands-controlled pivot more then pivot controlled hands as he quoted.
In respond to Brian posting. I suppose only Lynn and Chuck are following Mr. Kelley's pattern, where Ben is very much a pivot man.

The arms ONLY move first in non-optimum swings.
Totally agreed, only if the swing is very much handsy (Zero Pivot + Muscle force + Stiff hinges)

But if we are talking about swinging the arm and hands, it would be a different case. As it is impossible to use the arm to swing the arm.(You can move your arm with the muscle only) Although we are thinking about the arm, but is very much our subconcious brain is instructing the body to swing the arm. In some cases could we look at our pivot as in the form of a hinge, although the main source of power is coming from the large muscle group.(hand controlled pivot) But our brain function in a different way.

 

[6bee1dee]

In any eye-hand coordinated athletic move, it is the responsibility of the hands to be successful. I would think no NBA ball player ever worries about what his body is doing going to the hoop or kicking a jumper from the corner.
In golf, the pivot, whether used for a longer period of time in the stroke like Ben Doyle, or as a kick-start to the stroke as taught by perhaps Yoda, as long as it [pivot] doesn’t maneuver the hands, you still have a hands-controlled pivot.

 

[JohhnyThomas1]

Brian is correct as usual. Lynn's patterns use a hip slide to take up the slack at the start, he doesn't advocate the arms moving first.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I've said this a lot on online, maybe not here but at Lynn's and other forums on the net:

I don't care if you feel that the movement of your arms bump your hips, your hips moving bump your hips, or your left big toe that is falling back to the ground helps bump your hips. WHATEVER YOUR FEEL that helps you BUMP YOUR HIPS is what you should use because the hips have to slide a little for both patterns.

I'm not 100% sure on this but the only swing you don't need one is a Zero Pivot stroke similar to Jodie Mudd but i'm not sure how that works.