Pivot drills... any use?

[Butch]

I know what Brian's qualifications are and I prefer to listen to him. Others can choose to follow your advice if they so desire. But, they have a right to know whether you have ever been able to play the game well or not. For me, that makes a big difference. Or let them see your swing and let them make their own conclusions. I have and I did.

And what property management has to do with golf instruction I am sure is clear only to you.

 

[Perfect Impact]

It wasn't about property management: it was about the "value" of credentials. I have just posted someone else's experience with the "credentials" of the four PGA professionals he referred to for teaching.

By all means choose your own instruction: do you feel it your duty to make decisions for others about me? Or to warn them?

Next time you read a post of mine, you might want to take note of the inherent good sense and logic of what I write: I do not write with authority or imprimatur or with express permission of the USGA (do you?). I write from common sense and it will come through if you really read what I write.

Nothing beats self-evidence when something is clarified.

Austin said it this way when challenged: "You can't improve on GOD!" referring to the obviousness of his swing mechanics as being the best possible use of the human body for hitting golf balls. He really DID see it that clearly. As self-evident as 2+2=4. It requires no credentials to teach that.

And you have not seen my swing despite what has been posted. Nor witnessed my demos or ball striking.

 

[shootin4par]

I would much rather have a golf instructor who can hit the ball then one who cant. If a golf instructor cannot hit a golf ball essentially what he is telling me, subconsciously, I want you to do something I cannot do, I THINK I know how it should be done, but I cannot personally put my theories in action myself.

In basketball a coach does not need to know the mechanics of shooting so much, they have shooting coaches for that, he does not need to know HOW to box out, they have defense coaches for that, BUT he needs to be able to see when someone is not boxing out, and how the defense is breaking down, bad decisions on the court, etc... Head Football, basketball, baseball, soccer coaches are there to teach them strategy, assistant coaches deal with the individual skills

But in the golf swing you are not teaching strategy, you are teaching how to perform a skill. how much of a lesson is decision making skills, 10% at most, probably more like 1%, course management is easy to learn. The instructor should be able to demonstrate, instead of shank, thin, right, left. That is one thing that really impressed me with Brian and steve. They could talk for a half hour and not hit shots, then go and demonstrate and if they hit one bad one the next was good, but most all the shots were good. That alone makes me want to listen to them more, especially when they demonstrate different things and can swing the club multiple ways. If an instructor cannot do it how well do they really know their own method?

 

[puttmad]

...

In the DS he traces the target line with the grip cap on the way down and then swings his hands and throws the clubhead at the target

Well there is an out-to-in training program right there!.....


And George, you don't throw the clubhead at the target. That is manipulation. You throw the clubhead at the ball...

 

[Brian Manzella]

I would much rather have a golf instructor who can hit the ball then one who cant. If a golf instructor cannot hit a golf ball essentially what he is telling me, subconsciously, I want you to do something I cannot do, I THINK I know how it should be done, but I cannot personally put my theories in action myself.

In basketball a coach does not need to know the mechanics of shooting so much, they have shooting coaches for that, he does not need to know HOW to box out, they have defense coaches for that, BUT he needs to be able to see when someone is not boxing out, and how the defense is breaking down, bad decisions on the court, etc... Head Football, basketball, baseball, soccer coaches are there to teach them strategy, assistant coaches deal with the individual skills

But in the golf swing you are not teaching strategy, you are teaching how to perform a skill. how much of a lesson is decision making skills, 10% at most, probably more like 1%, course management is easy to learn. The instructor should be able to demonstrate, instead of shank, thin, right, left. That is one thing that really impressed me with Brian and steve. They could talk for a half hour and not hit shots, then go and demonstrate and if they hit one bad one the next was good, but most all the shots were good. That alone makes me want to listen to them more, especially when they demonstrate different things and can swing the club multiple ways. If an instructor cannot do it how well do they really know their own method?

Neil,

That is one really good post—and point.

If you couldn't demonstrate, Ben Doyle wouldn't Authorized you to be an AI.

David Laville, an AI from my neck of the woods, once went to Ben to get Authorized (Back when GSEM and GSED's did). He did great on the written test, but could hit it good enough for Ben to give his seal of approval.

His line of reasoning was if you could DO IT, you didn't KNOW IT.

He was (and is) right of course.

 

[Brian Manzella]

As far as Pivot Drills and Aiming you hands with your pivot.

Pivot Drills ARE helpful, if you know how to do them and which ones to do.

I will post a video soon on such.

As far as "Aiming you hands with your pivot,"

OF COURSE YOU CAN.

Otherwise, how would you HIT THE BALL with Pivot Controlled Hands?

 

[Perfect Impact]

Puttmad: the ball IS the target for the clubhead.

 

[mgranato]

In basketball a coach does not need to know the mechanics of shooting so much, they have shooting coaches for that, he does not need to know HOW to box out, they have defense coaches for that, BUT he needs to be able to see when someone is not boxing out, and how the defense is breaking down, bad decisions on the court, etc... Head Football, basketball, baseball, soccer coaches are there to teach them strategy, assistant coaches deal with the individual skills...

If a head coach cannot teach the individual skills himself, he will lose the respect and attention of his players. Football is a little different (shear number of coaches and players), but head basketball coaches had better know their stuff. After all, they were once assistant coaches, and they should be training their assistant coaches as well. Same relationship with head pros (or mentors) and his assistents. The coach who can't demonstrate what he claims to know is called a recruiter not a teacher.

 

[shootin4par]

If a head coach cannot teach the individual skills himself, he will lose the respect and attention of his players. Football is a little different (shear number of coaches and players), but head basketball coaches had better know their stuff. After all, they were once assistant coaches, and they should be training their assistant coaches as well. Same relationship with head pros (or mentors) and his assistents. The coach who can't demonstrate what he claims to know is called a recruiter not a teacher.

kind of missed the point, in basketball your skills do not have to be at or near your players you are trying to coach, but yes experience does help. In golf your swing skills should most all the time be way better then your students, cause most students are high to mid handicappers.

 

[mgranato]

I saw your point, I was basically agreeing that a coach (teacher) has to be able to demonstrate with a certain degree of expertise. I agree that instructors should usually be better than their students. From the other side of the coin, at a certain level, students should hope to become better thant their teachers (hopefully that'll be better than a 10 handicap).

 

[Ringer]

Pivot Drills ARE helpful, if you know how to do them and which ones to do.

I will post a video soon on such.

As far as "Aiming you hands with your pivot,"

OF COURSE YOU CAN.

Otherwise, how would you HIT THE BALL with Pivot Controlled Hands?

Unless it is a drill that gives realistic feedback to the body, I don't see how. Removing the club from the equation in the manner described by the original poster gives us a false sense of feel. Just as the motion for picking up a 5 lbs weight will be different for a 100 lbs weight. Even more to it, a 5 lbs ball will be picked up differently than picking up a 100 lbs barbell. Since the equipment is different, the motion will be different.... this gives us the wrong feedback.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Unless it is a drill that gives realistic feedback to the body, I don't see how. Removing the club from the equation in the manner described by the original poster gives us a false sense of feel. Just as the motion for picking up a 5 lbs weight will be different for a 100 lbs weight. Even more to it, a 5 lbs ball will be picked up differently than picking up a 100 lbs barbell. Since the equipment is different, the motion will be different.... this gives us the wrong feedback.

Pivot Drills ARE helpful, if you know how to do them and which ones to do.

I will post a video soon on such.

 

[Mr Inconsistent]

Pivot drills are helpful because many people get distracted by the club and especially hitting the ball and therefore don't focus enough on there pivot even when they are trying to. This has a lot to do with why almost every beginner uses an arms only swing with a virtually nonexistent pivot. So when you take the club and ball away, yes the weighting is off some, but at least they start somewhere making a decent pivot.

 

[Perfect Impact]

Often I give a drill not for the feeling at all, but to define, delineate, specify EXACTLY WHAT is moving and where. Like a piano instruction that says to the pupil - "CAN YOU PLAY THAT NOTE? WITH THAT FINGER?" Yes. IOW, it is necesssary to establish some facts, some details, that WILL be part of the dynamic movement LATER. NO music will come from sloppy inattentive and probably wrong notes or fingers!

Drills are not designed all just to hypnotize or trick someone into repetitive "feelings" at all: they are for the purpose of being specific and to clarify and teach what IS do and what is NOT do.