plane and speed

[pokerlife]

Brian or someone who knows can you give me some insight on this subject

When you swing the driver perfectly on plane do you pick up more clubhead speed? Was just curious because some days when Im swinging super smooth and using less effort i pick up 7 to 9 MPH

Was just maybe thinking that the increase in speed and feeling of smoothness was just due to being on the proper plane. Am I imagining this or is there some kind of truth to it?

 

[cwdlaw223]

The swing is more of an ellipse than a plane. If you want to use the term plane, there are many planes during a golf swing. Line drawing makes it seem like there's one plane when it isn't in 3D.

How old are you? Do you suffer from back problems? Are your higher swing speeds when it's hot out? How do you confirm such an increase in club speed? More facts are needed IMO.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Cwdlaw, congrats on your 500th post. Nice grind.

 

[bertsmith]

In swinging super smoothly you might be making a true swing instead of something less efficient?

 

[Brian Manzella]

What is a "true swing."

 

[SteveT]

There are no static "planes" in the golf swing... only paths... hand path... shoulder paths... clubhead path...!

If you want to construct an imaginary plane for diagnostic purposes, that's fine... but during the swing, you don't follow a plane, only a path.

You can "feel" a path, but not a plane ....

 

[cwdlaw223]

Cwdlaw, congrats on your 500th post. Nice grind.

Thanks. Learned more this year than last. Didn't think that was going to happen. Now I need to apply it to motor learning.

 

[pokerlife]

To me swinging on plane means to let the club swing naturally without manipulating it . When i feel like I'm fighting the forces of letting it happen is when i assume Im off plane.

 

[SteveT]

To me swinging on plane means to let the club swing naturally without manipulating it . When i feel like I'm fighting the forces of letting it happen is when i assume Im off plane.

Uuuum ... I think you've got "plane-on-the-brain" delusions, and that's because you've been looking at too many pictures where tilted lines have been drawn over somebody's golfswing and declared he's on/off plane by somebody else. Now your mind is infected with those images of planes which just don't exist in real life and you make up "feel" delusions about them.

You should be "feeeling" rotating and even linear paths your body parts may be following, and then you can alter those paths to change for the better. Ever think of that ....


p.s. The only significant dynamic plane is the .... D-PLANE...

 

[bertsmith]

One that has no compensations...one that tracks cleanly and accurately resulting in a dead square strike.

 

[willgolfer]

One that has no compensations...one that tracks cleanly and accurately resulting in a dead square strike.

PINGman?

 

[Michael Finney]

most of the studies agree from top to club point at 9 o'clock that the club's center of mass and the mid-point between the hands are not co-planar - slower speeds - the wagon is still not directly behind us yet....

9 o'clock to impact, the club's COM and the hands become co-planar - faster speeds - the wagon is directly behind us

that's why i think when there is off plane motion, the golfer has something to pull on and create speed for later when they "get on the same plane" - same reason a batter stands the bat up....pivots and the bat falls into plane to strike the baseball

 

[Todd Dugan]

Brian or someone who knows can you give me some insight on this subject

When you swing the driver perfectly on plane do you pick up more clubhead speed? Was just curious because some days when Im swinging super smooth and using less effort i pick up 7 to 9 MPH

Was just maybe thinking that the increase in speed and feeling of smoothness was just due to being on the proper plane. Am I imagining this or is there some kind of truth to it?

EVERY swing of force is in-plane from at least 3 feet before impact to impact. Effort to swing the clubhead linearly begs for a massive reduction to force and thus, clubhead velocity. So don't even try it. As Bobby Jones said, the feeling through impact should be of "freewheeling".

 

[mjstrong]

p.s. The only significant dynamic plane is the .... D-PLANE...

I'd add the Impact Plane, or Swing Plane numbers from the launch monitors. Also useful information.

I mention it because it is another plane. While it only serves to help create the D-Plane, it is still pretty important.

 

[GaryRead]

I too have noticed that with my smoother swings I loose little if any distance. I think it may be something to do with working with the shaft, not against it. I think hard swings with alot of muscular effort and heave are not accelerated smoothly but are jerky and as a result throw the bend characterisitcs of the shaft completely off and you end up being out of sync / time with the profile of the shaft, the kick point etc.

Hard to convince yourself to hit it smooth and easy when your trying to reach a par 5 in two though!

Interesting question may be, is there an optimal path(s) (Hand, shoulder etc) that creates maximum club head speed?

I can think of certain paths would would minimize speed, but what positions / paths would allow maximum speed?

 

[leon]

Quite possibly your smoother swing is more in control giving you impact nearer the sweetspot for a higher smash factor. Unless you have a LM I'm not sure you can attribute it to increased clubhead speed over improved impact conditions.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

most of the studies agree from top to club point at 9 o'clock that the club's center of mass and the mid-point between the hands are not co-planar - slower speeds - the wagon is still not directly behind us yet....

9 o'clock to impact, the club's COM and the hands become co-planar - faster speeds - the wagon is directly behind us

that's why i think when there is off plane motion, the golfer has something to pull on and create speed for later when they "get on the same plane" - same reason a batter stands the bat up....pivots and the bat falls into plane to strike the baseball

Hey Mike,

Could you expand on the comments above when you have a chance?

Thanks

 

[Matt Bryda]

that's why i think when there is off plane motion, the golfer has something to pull on and create speed for later when they "get on the same plane" - same reason a batter stands the bat up....pivots and the bat falls into plane to strike the baseball

Mike,

Do you think if the golfer is not aware of this and they don't utilize this off plane potential speed the club can just as easily keep going under (reverse tumble)?

 

[art]

Brian or someone who knows can you give me some insight on this subject

When you swing the driver perfectly on plane do you pick up more clubhead speed? Was just curious because some days when Im swinging super smooth and using less effort i pick up 7 to 9 MPH

Was just maybe thinking that the increase in speed and feeling of smoothness was just due to being on the proper plane. Am I imagining this or is there some kind of truth to it?

My experiences indicate that your stated "swinging super smooth" is more the result of 'tempo and dynamic balance', which then combine to produce more club head speed.

In tests with both Trackman and FlightScope, 10 and 20 ball comparisons of golfers swinging normally, and then with slight dynamic stability enhancing set-up conditions noted in a previous response (Ball Speed Magic Number for "big boy" golf), indicate 5-10 % increases in distance and sometimes more for golfers with both tempo and dynamic balance inconsistencies.

So, I predict your 'smooth' swings with 7-9 MPH higher club head velocities are the result of better dynamically balanced, and more body-determined (by resonances) tempo conditions.

 

[SteveT]

My experiences indicate that your stated "swinging super smooth" is more the result of 'tempo and dynamic balance', which then combine to produce more club head speed.

In tests with both Trackman and FlightScope, 10 and 20 ball comparisons of golfers swinging normally, and then with slight dynamic stability enhancing set-up conditions noted in a previous response (Ball Speed Magic Number for "big boy" golf), indicate 5-10 % increases in distance and sometimes more for golfers with both tempo and dynamic balance inconsistencies.

So, I predict your 'smooth' swings with 7-9 MPH higher club head velocities are the result of better dynamically balanced, and more body-determined (by resonances) tempo conditions.

ART... that's fantastic information!!!

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that a golfer's kinetic energy can be increased substantially with better dynamic balance between the body segments. Increasing clubhead velocity by 7-9 MPH to a 100 MPH speed within a slightly unbalanced body will result in ~17% increase in kinetic energy after rebalancing. Could you expand on your concept of golfswing "dynamic balance"?

Reviewing your comments in "Ball Speed Magic Number for "big boy" golf" (which I must admit I had difficulty fully understanding), I am intrigued by these sentences:

Simply ‘Pre Activate’ the muscle slings and complexes associated with you ‘rear, NOT lead hip, resulting in a few degrees ‘closed’ hip/pelvic position AS YOU COMPLETE YOUR SET-UP. If you use a forward press BE SURE NOT to undo this slightly closed position, HOLD IT, and then just start your normal back swing and watch the Trackman numbers AND the quality of your ball striking improve.

Rather than me guessing the full meaning of these fertile sentences, could you please expand a bit on it ..... particularly 'Pre Activate' the muscle sling in the rear hip. How do you do that, and how important is it to achieving higher kinetic energy generation?

Also what do you mean by "a few degrees closed hip/pelvic position"? Is that closed to the stance line or is it more flexure in the hip joints? I ask this because in my anecdotal study on only "one" subject (me), I do prefer a closed stance because of my height, but I do occasionally unflex my hips prematurely 'open', which in turn reflexively unflexes my knees, as I attempt to rotate my hips fully. Is this what you are speaking to?

Gratefully your's ... SteveT ....