Player and Instructor

[dschultz6072]

Ball striking comes and goes. It's like everything else. We have good days and bad days. Some days it feels like I can't even speak English. Like Jared said, when you're hitting it lousy and can still score...

 

[TheScotsman]

What "conniption"??!!! His swing looks okay to me ... except for his rather delayed application of Miura's parametric acceleration "jump" after he's finished ..!!!!

Look at that POWER GENERATED. Such mind boggling speed it knocks him off his feet!

Back on topic...welcome.

Call it what you like he still wouldn't get onto my teaching facility.

I just started reading some of Hermann Ebbinghaus stuff. You might find it interesting on his learning curve.



Hermann Ebbinghaus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sounds a bit like early studies of NLP

You've made several references to "motor" skills for the golfswing. As an extension of Gallwey's Inner Golf, have you studied the science behind Motor Control and Learning? How about the basics of Kinesiology and Proprioception? I have personally found these subjects interesting and informative... even though I am only a lowly old graduate engineer with a "scratch" bogey game....!

I have read some passages on these topics but I would not claim to be an expert. I understand that almost all of our "voluntary" movements are not under conscious control but are performed subconsciously. Most muscle activity is controlled via a complex system of checks and balances where the learning criteria arises from kinaesthetic feedback from the skin, muscles, ligaments and joints. Therefore the conscious mind is minimally involved in learning motor skills but for scientific study it is heavily involved. Can this consciously studied science be subconsciously adapted to aid in learning movement? I would reckon from the above points that conscious participation would have minor effect.

I really think if you tried to learn what is actually happening "scientifically" you could better teach your students to get the right "feel." Something is happening scientifically that is resulting in that "feel." Fat shots, thin shots, shallow swing planes, steep swing planes, etc. all result from something "scientific" in a swing.

I understand your argument but my views on this have been answered directly above.

 

[TheScotsman]

Yes... I suppose if you can learn properly and mentally remember, it might be helpful in studying and applying the golfswing. I always wonder what happens to forum members who tell us they've "got it" after one session on the driving range... do they forget eventually or do they just not bother to practice to reinforce what they so miraculously did with that one magical lesson or tip ..... oh well....!

Fred Shoemaker addresses this point at length in one of his books. He explains how the 'quick fix,' (normally a swing tip based on conscious mind involvement) has a very short but almost miraculous existence. Golfers experience 100's of them throughout their golfing life. None of them ever stick. We are always on the look out for the next short lived miracle cure. How many times are we going to say we've found the secret only to wake up a day or two later, and revert again to waiting for the next one.

 

[TheScotsman]

Ball striking comes and goes. It's like everything else. We have good days and bad days. Some days it feels like I can't even speak English. Like Jared said, when you're hitting it lousy and can still score...

Hi David,

as I have already said, this comes and goes because of what I call overuse or contamination from the conscious mind. It is however very difficult to avoid because almost every method of golf instruction attracts heavy conscious involvement. Magazines, books, videos, the golf channel and also most instructors slant strongly in this direction.

 

[Brian Manzella]

All the Fred Shomaker stuff probably should be in its on thread.

 

[TheScotsman]

All the Fred Shomaker stuff probably should be in its on thread.

Sorry Brian,

I'm sure there's an obvious typo here but I can't get this sentence.

EDIT

I've got it... own thread.

You could change the heading to 'Inner Game Learning as a Player and Instructor' although I didn't intend to stick only to this theme but instead introduce myself to the forum.

 

[Rick Dandy]

Scots,

Welcome.

Where do you teach?

 

[ParHunter]

We had a thread on the inner game earlier this year (http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16877-inner-game-any-experience.html). I recently read the book and I can see the point made in the book, however I am struggling to make it work for me as a player/hacker. Especially the part about being non-judgmental is hard for me. If I try to be aware of a certain position/move etc and something goes wrong with the shot my Self1 jumps in straight away and ties to analyse what went wrong and tries to correct it on the next few swings. So I move from 'awareness' to 'awareness' without staying on one particular thing for long.

I guess it might just come down to range discipline and maybe I should ignore what the ball does the first few shots.

 

[TheScotsman]

Scots,

Welcome.

Where do you teach?

I teach in the Alps in Southern Germany. BTW did you receive my PM regarding uploading images.

We had a thread on the inner game earlier this year (http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/16877-inner-game-any-experience.html). I recently read the book and I can see the point made in the book, however I am struggling to make it work for me as a player. Especially the part about being non-judgmental is hard for me. If I try to be aware of a certain position/move etc and something goes wrong with the shot my Self1 jumps in straight away and ties to analyse what went wrong and tries to correct it on the next few swings. So I move from 'awareness' to 'awareness' without staying on one particular thing for long.

I guess it might just come down to range discipline and maybe I should ignore what the ball does the first few shots.

PH, I could write a whole chapter on this also but lets start with the short answer as you understand the subject

NJF (non judgemental feedback) is best practised with a companion. I have always worked with my daughter as my companion, and we mirror/observe each other. It goes like this...

Using ratings from -1 to +1 tell me which path your club head followed through impact, with -1 being outside in, 0 being DTL and +1 being in to out. The player must be allowed to rate this first and a NJ reply follows from the mirror/observer. Are you using a partner?

 

[ParHunter]

PH, I could write a whole chapter on this also but lets start with the short answer as you understand the subject

NJF (non judgemental feedback) is best practised with a companion. I have always worked with my daughter as my companion, and we mirror/observe each other. It goes like this...

Using ratings from -1 to +1 tell me which path your club head followed through impact, with -1 being outside in, 0 being DTL and +1 being in to out. The player must be allowed to rate this first and a NJ reply follows from the mirror/observer. Are you using a partner?

Grüß Gott Scott ;-)

No on the range I normally practise on my own which I guess makes the awareness training difficult to learn.

 

[dschultz6072]

Hi David,

as I have already said, this comes and goes because of what I call overuse or contamination from the conscious mind. It is however very difficult to avoid because almost every method of golf instruction attracts heavy conscious involvement. Magazines, books, videos, the golf channel and also most instructors slant strongly in this direction.

I was talking more about factors like being tired, distracted, different mood, blood sugar being a little off, metabolism, etc. Just things completely independent of golf can change my performance. Not necessarily just with golf! Work, too.

 

[TheScotsman]

I was talking more about factors like being tired, distracted, different mood, blood sugar being a little off, metabolism, etc. Just things completely independent of golf can change my performance. Not necessarily just with golf! Work, too.

Yes, I think they also call this condition, getting out of the wrong side of the bed. I'm not a life coach and although I could discuss these factors, I wouldn't include them in a golf lesson although they are definitely relevant. My students can use these factors as excuses for bad performance but they very rarely want a lesson based on combating them.