Player and Instructor

[grahler]

I loved Galwey but I only read the tennis book and I already had excellent mechanics in that game.
I would be curious how that would work with beginners in golf.
I think Its very Zen to let go of conscious mind control but maybe you need a certain level of fundamental training first.

 

[TheScotsman]

Don't mind Steve T, Scotsman. He's a hacker with an engineering background who thinks he's a swing expert. While he does know some stuff, it seems he rarely uses this knowledge for good. I have a feeeeling he's mostly really bored and is trying to keep himself entertained.

Thanks, but I don't mind Steve T, his replies are totally on topic. But if you look at the replies on this 2nd page some of them are just bizarre and seem to undermine the theme of the thread, my introduction to this forum.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Could I improve how I present my method of coaching by having a better understanding of this science?

Only by a bunch.

... I prefer to coach using my personal strengths and passions which involve imagination, creativity, feel, awareness and concentration. These attributes cannot be measured by scientific devices.

I lead the nation in creative.

Knowing THE TRUTH gives you something with substance to be creative about.

I envy your passion for improving your scientific knowledge but it does go right over my head.

Baloney.

I could explain ANY OF IT in child-like terms.

So, even you could get it.

 

[TheScotsman]

I loved Galwey but I only read the tennis book and I already had excellent mechanics in that game.
I would be curious how that would work with beginners in golf.
I think Its very Zen to let go of conscious mind control but maybe you need a certain level of fundamental training first.

You should know from the tennis book that the conscious mind is sidetracked with simple tasks allowing the subconscious to carry out the golf swing. All motions are carried out predominantly with the subconscious, its conscious interference that causes the main problems. Golfing beginners are the easiest students because they have had less conscious interference or contamination.

 

[coach]

I really enjoyed The Inner Game, also enjoyed Fred Shoemakers Extraordinary Golf. I spent a week with Fred and it was very enlightening, still talk to him every once an awhile.

 

[grahler]

So in your teaching a total neophyte do you just kind of say watch this and then let them match what you want them to do to eliminate conscious mind interference and overteaching?

 

[Michael Finney]

scotsman,

what do you do with students that have conniption fits?

 

[TheScotsman]

Only by a bunch.

But my coaching requires little explanation. I already have a knowledge base that is 100 times higher than I need. It may be 100 times lower than yours but its still more than enough.

I lead the nation in creative.

Creativity is only a part of it.

Knowing THE TRUTH gives you something with substance to be creative about.

Really, will we ever get to the truth?

Baloney.

I could explain ANY OF IT in child-like terms.

So, even you could get it.

I understand enough and I've watched some of your videos. I do however believe some of the language could be a little more on the golfer's level.

 

[TheScotsman]

I really enjoyed The Inner Game, also enjoyed Fred Shoemakers Extraordinary Golf. I spent a week with Fred and it was very enlightening, still talk to him every once an awhile.

I envy you. Fred seems to be a really screwed in guy.

 

[coach]

Yes he is, one of the nicest people I have ever met. Damn good golfer. Hit balls on the range with him and Fred Couples, then played 9 holes the next day with them. Each shot we had to do something different, high draw, low fade, etc. Played the par 3 with only 5 iron or 5 wood. Played golf for the fun and creativity, saw Fred skip a ball across a pond and on the green with a fairway wood, and he called it before he did it

 

[TheScotsman]

So in your teaching a total neophyte do you just kind of say watch this and then let them match what you want them to do to eliminate conscious mind interference and overteaching?

Not quite. I start by using many of the motor skills they have already in place to lead out/extract their inbred ability to learn new skills/movements. Its like teaching a child to play football, we would expect many motor skills to already be in place, like running, jumping, balance etc. No one starts with a blank sheet.

scotsman,

what do you do with students that have conniption fits?

Ha ha! They are not allowed on our practice facility.

 

[TheScotsman]

Yes he is, one of the nicest people I have ever met. Damn good golfer. Hit balls on the range with him and Fred Couples, then played 9 holes the next day with them. Each shot we had to do something different, high draw, low fade, etc. Played the par 3 with only 5 iron or 5 wood. Played golf for the fun and creativity, saw Fred skip a ball across a pond and on the green with a fairway wood, and he called it before he did it

Now you are name dropping. I once played on the same golf course on the same day, three holes behind Sean Connery (James Bond). He also took a couple of lessons off me but that's beside the point.

I think its my Inner Game influences that led me to play golf with only 7 clubs. I have already started a thread on this theme.

 

[grahler]

Not quite. I start by using many of the motor skills they have already in place to lead out/extract their inbred ability to learn new skills/movements. Its like teaching a child to play football, we would expect many motor skills to already be in place, like running, jumping, balance etc. No one starts with a blank sheet.



Ha ha! They are not allowed on our practice facility.

LOL years of work could correct the deficiency there...maybe.
Rofl

 

[coach]

Now you are name dropping. I once played on the same golf course on the same day, three holes behind Sean Connery (James Bond).

LOL Well I am sure Couples drops my name all the time so ......why not

 

[SteveT]

Not quite. I start by using many of the motor skills they have already in place to lead out/extract their inbred ability to learn new skills/movements. Its like teaching a child to play football, we would expect many motor skills to already be in place, like running, jumping, balance etc. No one starts with a blank sheet.

You've made several references to "motor" skills for the golfswing. As an extension of Gallwey's Inner Golf, have you studied the science behind Motor Control and Learning? How about the basics of Kinesiology and Proprioception? I have personally found these subjects interesting and informative... even though I am only a lowly old graduate engineer with a "scratch" bogey game....!

 

[SteveT]

scotsman,

what do you do with students that have conniption fits?

What "conniption"??!!! His swing looks okay to me ... except for his rather delayed application of Miura's parametric acceleration "jump" after he's finished ..!!!!

 

[dschultz6072]

Look at that POWER GENERATED. Such mind boggling speed it knocks him off his feet!

Back on topic...welcome.

 

[coach]

You've made several references to "motor" skills for the golfswing. As an extension of Gallwey's Inner Golf, have you studied the science behind Motor Control and Learning? How about the basics of Kinesiology and Proprioception? I have personally found these subjects interesting and informative... even though I am only a lowly old graduate engineer with a "scratch" bogey game....!

I just started reading some of Hermann Ebbinghaus stuff. You might find it interesting on his learning curve

Hermann Ebbinghaus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[admaly01]

I really think if you tried to learn what is actually happening "scientifically" you could better teach your students to get the right "feel." Something is happening scientifically that is resulting in that "feel." Fat shots, thin shots, shallow swing planes, steep swing planes, etc. all result from something "scientific" in a swing.

 

[SteveT]

I just started reading some of Hermann Ebbinghaus stuff. You might find it interesting on his learning curve

Hermann Ebbinghaus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes... I suppose if you can learn properly and mentally remember, it might be helpful in studying and applying the golfswing. I always wonder what happens to forum members who tell us they've "got it" after one session on the driving range... do they forget eventually or do they just not bother to practice to reinforce what they so miraculously did with that one magical lesson or tip ..... oh well....!