Please analyze my Trackman numbers!

[geohans]

I learned a great deal from you guys over the last 2 years. I finally got on a trackman, and would like to know what you think it says about my swing:

This is with an MP 68 6iron With KBS Stiff, softstepped once. Average 5 shots. I'd like to know what think those of you who work with these numbers, about the fit, and what the numbers say about my swing. I thought I was hitting soft draws, but I don't know which direction the pluses and minuses are. I don't get the spin number! This was done off a mat, under a shelter, but outdoors.

CLUB:
Club Speed 82.0
Attack Angle -3.9
Club Path -2.2
Vert Swing Plane 57.4
Horiz Swing Plane -4.7
Dyn Loft 22.4
Face Angle 3.4

LAUNCH:
Ball Speed 111.8
Smash Factor 1.36
Vert Angle 17.0
Horiz Angle 2.2
Spin: 6217 (!)
Spin Axis 3.6

LANDING:
Max Ht. 24.1 yds
Carry 149.5yds
Side 4.2yds
Flight time 5.18sec
Landing Angle 44.5deg

TOTAL
Length 159.0yds
Side 3.7yds

 

[Richie3Jack]

Brian's NSA 2.0 may be good for you because you have a classic slice swing.

Attack angle is good (-3.9*).

But the HSP is -4.7* as it should be more like -2* in order to 'zero out' your club path.

Because of that, your true path is at -2.2*, which is still fine, but your face needs to be more square or slightly closed. But, it's not. The face is actually open at +3.4*.

Without seeing your swing, my guess is that you have an open face at the top of the swing and then you cast and come over the top on the downswing. I believe Brian would say to fix the clubface first. Then work on the path. Get those 2 straightened out and that should greatly improve accuracy and power. You should notice the improved power.

The spin rate is fine. Tour average for a 5-iron is 6,000 rpms. So being at 6,200 rpms with a 6-iron should be fine.

Some of the other numbers that show you were hitting a slice are:

Horizontal Angle at 2.2* means the ball *started* to the right of the target by 2.2*.

Spin Axis is at 3.6* which mean the ball had a slice spin of 3.6*.





3JACK

 

[MikeD2]

Chicken or Egg?

I believe Brian would say to fix the clubface first. Then work on the path. Get those 2 straightened out and that should greatly improve accuracy and power. You should notice the improved power.






I think you're absolutely right, Richie, Brian would say fix the face first. What is supposed to be the progression of improvement after that? Assume the player works hard and now has a square or slightly closed club face at impact. The player now has an OTT plane and a square/closed face. Does the pull or pull hook that results provide the negative reinforcement to force the player to change his path? Does it happen automatically? Once the face is fixed, what is the next move to work on for an OTT player?

Thanks all. Great topic.

 

[Richie3Jack]

I think you're absolutely right, Richie, Brian would say fix the face first. What is supposed to be the progression of improvement after that? Assume the player works hard and now has a square or slightly closed club face at impact. The player now has an OTT plane and a square/closed face. Does the pull or pull hook that results provide the negative reinforcement to force the player to change his path? Does it happen automatically? Once the face is fixed, what is the next move to work on for an OTT player?

Thanks all. Great topic.

I believe that this game is about who can consistently control the clubface the best throughout their bag, even with and especially the putter. You can do that well, you may not be great but you're likely to be really really good.

I think we'd have to see the player's swing. I think that the golfer is coming OTT and if he is, that may be contributing to the open face. I think they are coming OTT and then they wind up steering the clubface and that gets the face open. I highly doubt the OP flips with that steep of an attack angle, so the main issue is face and path IMO. If the clubface is pretty square at the top of the swing, then I would probably imagine he would need to work on the path religiously.

Trackman provides some great clues, but can't tell for sure until the swing is seen.





3JACK

 

[geohans]

Actually, I worked hard with a great TGM guy here in Tucson and got rid of OTT, but took a year off from golf. Might have crept back in, obviously.

I have a solid pivot, and usually start the ball to the right (I am right handed). As I have put my swing back together, I've been having trouble closing the face, but I don't feel much OTT at all. No pulls, for example

I'll have a lesson and new clubs next week, so I'll update, with video if possible!

 

[MikeD2]

Actually, I worked hard with a great TGM guy here in Tucson and got rid of OTT, but took a year off from golf. Might have crept back in, obviously.

I have a solid pivot, and usually start the ball to the right (I am right handed). As I have put my swing back together, I've been having trouble closing the face, but I don't feel much OTT at all. No pulls, for example

I'll have a lesson and new clubs next week, so I'll update, with video if possible!

Sorry Geohans, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. My question was really directed at the process of improving an OTT player and not at your specific swing. I agree with Richie that the goal should be to improve swings, not numbers.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Actually, I worked hard with a great TGM guy here in Tucson and got rid of OTT, but took a year off from golf. Might have crept back in, obviously.

I have a solid pivot, and usually start the ball to the right (I am right handed). As I have put my swing back together, I've been having trouble closing the face, but I don't feel much OTT at all. No pulls, for example

I'll have a lesson and new clubs next week, so I'll update, with video if possible!

Sounds plausible. I'd definitely want to hear from Brian and Kevin, guys that have entirely more experience than I do with Trackman, but that's what I read from those numbers.




3JACK

 

[spktho]

My lesson with Brian a few years ago was pretty much covering this same situation. Except OTT was not mentioned. I was slicing or pulling the ball, nothing straight. Brian taught me twistaway and I started hitting pulls and pull hooks. Then he worked on the path by a more inside hands takeaway and feeling like swinging to right field--the soft draw pattern, before the video. I took some time off from golf and forgot most of it--until a few months ago.

No Trackman involved, though. Sorry to continue the thread jacking.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Id have to see all the ballflight to understand that spin axis. It should be way more slice bias. Im guessing alot of toe hits or a duck hook in there to skew the average. At 82mph and a 5 degree open face/path those shots would end up much more right than that.

What kind of balls were you using? Just curious.

BTW, (-) is always down, left or closed for a right hander. (+) is up, right, or open

 

[ggsjpc]

Kevin has nailed it as always. When posting Trackman numbers, it is also important to post ball flight data. Whenever possible, post the actual data for each shot. This will give you the best results from your question.

I have driver data from a guy that hit 4 shots. 2 straight pull and 2 straight push. Equal amounts of pull and push so when we looked at the average he looked like he should be a millionaire. The raw data is best.

Without the ball flight data we have to assume what the ball did. The numbers show one thing but depending where on the face you hit the ball, you can get an actual ball flight the doesn't match the numbers.

If you have all the data, post it. You'll get much more correct and useful feedback.

 

[geohans]

I don't have access to shot by shot data at this time; fitting done in PHX. I may be able to get it. I just took home a sheet with averages. But seriously, I watched the flight of every ball. These shots were very consistent. We threw out my bad swings

Each shot looked like my good shots usually do, except that there was a bit of fade. I attributed that to the dynamics of the KB shaft, which is designed to help avoid hooks, according to the guys at FST. I also had trouble closing the face, obviously, which was due mainly to my lack of practice in the last few months, combined with the playing characteristics of the shaft as I perceived them. Note my thread from a couple weeks ago: "I can't hook my KB's!"

In any case thanks for sharing your takes on my data. It was a first for me, so I didn't even know plus from minus!