Post "Well-Timed Release" Teaching.....you want evidence?? Here's your evidence!

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Post "Well-Timed Release" Teaching.....you want evidence?? Here's your evidence!

In a world where guys who can't break 80 are swing "experts," and folks actually think I teach a flip and some kind of powerless swing....



Here's a case study for ya.

This golfer is no more than 160 lbs, and is not 5' 10". He is NOT a kid either, but has talent.

He even went out and bought his own TMIII.

We have worked about 10+ hours now, and he is coming along nicely.

He is a COMPLETELY Post "Well-Timed Release" student.

Here are some REAL CAPTURED TrackMan numbers, and ALL of them, not just the ball numbers.

robertmerillBOMBS.jpg



Don't choke on it wannabes.
 
hp12c

hp12c

New
Brian Manzella said:
In a world where guys who can't break 80 are swing "experts," and folks actually think I teach a flip and some kind of powerless swing....



Here's a case study for ya.

This golfer is no more than 160 lbs, and is not 5' 10". He is NOT a kid either, but has talent.

He even went out and bought his own TMIII.

We have worked about 10+ hours now, and he is coming along nicely.

He is a COMPLETELY Post "Well-Timed Release" student.

Here are some REAL CAPTURED TrackMan numbers, and ALL of them, not just the ball numbers.

robertmerillBOMBS.jpg



Don't choke on it wannabes.
Click to expand...

Nice going Bmanz, how about a littel explantion/breakdowm on the numbers
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

New
I wish I could get my swing plane out 9 degrees to the right and hit that high draw.

Those shots are hit hard.
 
W

wulsy

New
114mph is fast. A bud of mine claims constantly to have 110-112mph swing speed and every time he has been measured properly he has about 106. He hits it about 265 carry.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
So my student, Robert is a very talented hard working golfer.

But these numbers are NOWHERE near what they were when we started over a month a ago. We gained some speed, and optimization.

And we did it without any thought of deep into the downswing lag.

As a matter of fact, you'd have a tough time doing it with it.


We will keep you up to date with our progress, we have big goals.
 
C

cwdlaw223

New
Holy shit those are some great numbers! These numbers show that with serios speed the ball can still be off by 35 yards even with great path and face angle numbers. 1.8* face angle at that speed is very good in my opinion.

Nice to see some real objective data about a student instead of videos with some kids at a junky driving range. Refreshing and impressive.

What was the original clubhead speed? 114 mph is serious speed.
 
Last edited:
C

cwdlaw223

New
Brian -

Was the second shot a little on the heel?

FA was closed to path on that one and the ball went 20 yards right.

On the first one the FA was open to the path and the ball went 35 yards right.
 
B

Bigwill

New
I don't know if it will make a difference in the response or the contact area, but I think the side dispersion was measured in feet as opposed to yards.
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

New
Pretty serious student. Does this guy want to be on Tour? To drop that much $$$ for a TMIII, one would think he has very large ambitions.
 
C

cwdlaw223

New
Feet vs. Yards makes a huge difference. I just assumed yards since the Trackman I use only puts out yards when I use it. Devil in the details and I now see the F for feet. Next the haters will claim that Brian made up the numbers!

I saw one hacker claimed these numbers are "pretty much" like a student of his favorite instructor yet this same instructor won't use Trackman because he doesn't understand gear effect and there is no data for his student who "pretty much" hits it like the screen shot. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
 
Last edited:
mgranato

mgranato

New
cwdlaw223 said:
Feet vs. Yards makes a huge difference. I just assumed yards since the Trackman I use only puts out yards when I use it. Devil in the details and I now see the F for feet. Next the haters will claim that Brian made up the numbers!

I saw one hackers claimed these numbers are "pretty much" like a student of his favorite instructor yet this same instructor won't use Trackman because he doesn't understand gear effect and there is no data for his student who "pretty much" hits it like the screen shot. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Click to expand...

So what's more important?

Got numbers from a guy at the club this weekend (very cold) on five 7 irons. This guy has a down swing hand path well over his back swing hand path. He doesn’t get near “tour like” open with his hips or shoulders at impact. He has some noticeable “run off” at the top of his swing. And he doesn't "stay in his spine angle". All classic faults and sins against the line drawers.

Here are his averages for those 5 swings…

Ball Speed = 120mph (range balls)
Attack Angle = -4.6
Face Angle = 0.4
Club Path = 0.3
VSP = 60.0
HSP = -2.4
H Launch = 0.3

Not terrible numbers for a guy who couldn’t make it on the Youtube Tour.:rolleyes:
 
C

cwdlaw223

New
Numbers only for ballstriking (as opposed to playing golf)! The ball doesn't care how we look. If your pattern isn't tied to good impact numbers you'll be lost unless you can dig it out of the dirt or are blessed with world class timing (usually both). 1/2000th of a second is all we have in this game. Better make it count. We are all flawed and have our own bio-mechanical limitations. That's why when I see posts from hackers who claim they have the ONE AND ONLY answer I cringe. Anyone who has played this game long enough learns very quickly that there is no one best pattern for everyone. Even Brian mentions this in new ideas about the release. Some people won't be able to do it properly and others will.

Those are great numbers. I like the "line drawers" moniker. Have to start using that one if the person isn't a hack and plays more than a couple holes of golf per year. Of course, people that start playing and know how hard this game really is lose the dogma real quick about their beliefs that they can't be wrong.
 
Last edited:
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I'm going to assume that this golfer is very optimized when it comes to his driver; loft/shaft/flex/etc.

What i find HIGHLY interesting is how much proper technique with the driver has dramatically increased the potential for driver distance. Anyone who has done fittings and have used the older launch monitors know that in general, swing speed x 2.5 was a real good proxy for maximum carry distance. Generally though that was a theoretically maximum efficiency multiplier like assuming your ball speed is your swing speed x 1.50; generally we aren't going to average a 1.50 smash factor.

If we look at this persons 2 swings he has an average smash factor of 1.48 which is attainable with a very good swing however his carry multiplier when looking at carry versus swing speed, on average, is 2.58! :eek:

That's a big deal folks, think about it this way

100mph * 2.47 = 247 yards of carry distance
100mph * 2.58 = 258 yards of carry distance

(used 2.47 instead of 2.50 because i found historically before TM 2.47 was a real world multiplier)

That's a 4.5% increase in carry distance or 11 yards at 100mph of swing speed.

That's a lot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top