Pull back, jump....but no run up!

[huestisc]

Hi,

Here's my Dad's swing. He's a good player, a retired club pro who still plays to about a 5 hdcp at 67 years old. There's a nasty move that has worked it's way into his swing over the past few years and we can't quite work out how to fix it.

As you will see, his backswing looks fine, but then on the downswing he hangs back and never gets his left shoulder back to the ball, which leads to a nasty flip move about half way down. From there, the pivot completely stops and it's all hands until the club pulls him thorugh to the finish.

At impact, his left shoulder is a good four inches behind the ball. I really wish I had these swings on a Casio 210 fps clip, where you could really see how it all falls apart half way down.

My view is that his pivot causes the flip, although he thinks that his first downcocking move gets him stuck, and that causes him to hang back....not sure if it's the chicken or the egg.

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Regarding ballflight, his misses tend to be low, ugly heel cuts, but he has good timing so often can hit it decent. The ballflight is deceptive, because his problem is being underplane, but the subsequent flip causes the low fades.

So, I have tried to get him to do a counterfall type move at the transition, get his upper body over his left leg before turning...but that hasn't worked, he just can't get his upper body back to the ball.

I've also tried to get him to keep the left shoulder low longer on the transition, as he gets way too much axis tilt way to early.

He's tried doing a Gary Player "walk through" type move, but it doesn't fix anything either.

We've also tried some NHA type ideas, like the carry.

He's also tried more of a sweep release, and keeping the club "more in front of him" but that's also failed to fix the problem.

I'd be curious to see what ideas Brian or his staff have, if they have fixed something like this before and how they went about it.

 

[Kevin Shields]

He doesnt have much going on in the way of footwork. From face on, his hands have reached chest high and his belt buckle hasnt moved an inch. So i would say he lacks some "pull back".

Arms first going back, arms first coming down. He probably also senses from the arm-y backswing that he doesnt have enough width so he backs up in the transition to find the bottom of the ball.

 

[dbl]

Shoulder turn is maybe 45-55 degrees.

 

[huestisc]

He doesnt have much going on in the way of footwork. From face on, his hands have reached chest high and his belt buckle hasnt moved an inch. So i would say he lacks some "pull back".

Arms first going back, arms first coming down. He probably also senses from the arm-y backswing that he doesnt have enough width so he backs up in the transition to find the bottom of the ball.

Thanks Kevin. So what would you have him working on, more hip turn at start-up, with more of a lagging clubhead takeaway type feel?

Obviously at his age flexibility is an issue, so his shoulder turn is restricted ... I guess that strengthens the case for more of a conscious hip turn?

 

[westy]

left.

move the ball back, closer, then make him swinging way more to the left.

 

[savydan]

Thanks Kevin. So what would you have him working on, more hip turn at start-up, with more of a lagging clubhead takeaway type feel?

Obviously at his age flexibility is an issue, so his shoulder turn is restricted ... I guess that strengthens the case for more of a conscious hip turn?

Agree. He should turn his hips as far as he can.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I dont know about his flexibility issues but there's no way he's making as much hip turn as he can. He overaccelerates his arms so much at the beginning that his pivot cant participate at all. More footwork, lift left heel, LCT, straighten left leg and hover those hands. He can even preset some turn at address.

I really think he needs a huge mental change as to how his body can move his arms.

 

[savydan]

Basically all arms in the backswing.

Then his body trys to find its balance on the right foot. (The weight should have gone to the right earlier, via the hip turn, and then get solidly back to the left foot in the transition.)

The downswing is a slide to the left with too much weight still right. I do like the axis tilt.

Notice hitting irons off a tee. I would guess he thins it and flares it right occassionally off the turf.

 

[huestisc]

I dont know about his flexibility issues but there's no way he's making as much hip turn as he can. He overaccelerates his arms so much at the beginning that his pivot cant participate at all. More footwork, lift left heel, LCT, straighten left leg and hover those hands. He can even preset some turn at address.

I really think he needs a huge mental change as to how his body can move his arms.

Cool, thanks for the feedback Kevin.

 

[huestisc]

Notice hitting irons off a tee. I would guess he thins it and flares it right occassionally off the turf.

Thanks for your response. Regarding hitting irons off a tee, not really relevant...that happens to be a pretty low lofted hybrid, maybe 13 or 14º? In fact he often doesn't tee the ball up at all, even with a Driver.

 

[savydan]

No sweat. Good luck.