westy
New
not the shovel
not the mind
not the grip
not the body
not the teacher
it is behind `mental`
Is breathing mental....?
Putting help
- Thread starter bcoak
- Start date
- Status
not the shovel
not the mind
not the grip
not the body
not the teacher
it is behind `mental`
Is breathing mental....?
What if you can't get the speed right because of the yips, then what? Did you have the yips and got rid of them? Just curious, not attacking.
You forgot? Ah! your hands were probably busy doing something and they didn't tell your brain to remember.
Focal Dystonia is a general term and there's different types. The one that affects musicians is an overuse of the affected part.
Golf yips is different. Has nothing to do with your so called fundamentals, someone can have a perfect grip, aim it good , etc. then during the actual stroke it all goes wrong, involuntary. Brain signal to hand goes wrong, why...?
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welshdentist
New
My simple bit of help would be to do some unconscious putting on course.
Once you have done your read, and can see a line going back and forth to the hole that the ball will travel along, and have made your practice strokes behind the ball looking at the ball and hole. When happy with pace and length of practice stroke, get to the ball as quickly as you are comfortable with.
Aim the putter looking at the hole, then get comfortable into your stance, ALL THE TIME LOOKING AT THE HOLE, then look back to the ball and as soon as you see the ball, make your stroke, no thoughts, not anything, MAKE THE STROKE.
The only variation I would add to this once you are putting well again is to follow the line from ball to hole, then follow it back again in reverse. As you follow it in reverse as soon as you get to the ball make the stroke. NO MECHANICAL THOUGHTS!
Mr Nicklaus tracked the ball to the hole and back again, that's pretty good advice in my book.
Do all your stroke work on the practice green/house/office. Once on course you have to just react. This sounds like simple advice but it works, there are many other NLP/Mind techniques but I was taught this one for chipping issues, and combined with mechanical work off course this has solved my problems.
I hope this helps as if you do what you do on the practice green, your stroke is good. We can all improve out reading,pace,aim and stroke on the practice green, but we need to work on our mental routine too.
Once you have done your read, and can see a line going back and forth to the hole that the ball will travel along, and have made your practice strokes behind the ball looking at the ball and hole. When happy with pace and length of practice stroke, get to the ball as quickly as you are comfortable with.
Aim the putter looking at the hole, then get comfortable into your stance, ALL THE TIME LOOKING AT THE HOLE, then look back to the ball and as soon as you see the ball, make your stroke, no thoughts, not anything, MAKE THE STROKE.
The only variation I would add to this once you are putting well again is to follow the line from ball to hole, then follow it back again in reverse. As you follow it in reverse as soon as you get to the ball make the stroke. NO MECHANICAL THOUGHTS!
Mr Nicklaus tracked the ball to the hole and back again, that's pretty good advice in my book.
Do all your stroke work on the practice green/house/office. Once on course you have to just react. This sounds like simple advice but it works, there are many other NLP/Mind techniques but I was taught this one for chipping issues, and combined with mechanical work off course this has solved my problems.
I hope this helps as if you do what you do on the practice green, your stroke is good. We can all improve out reading,pace,aim and stroke on the practice green, but we need to work on our mental routine too.
softconsult
New
Bcoak started the thread saying he had the yips. That's a fairly broad term.
Yips could be a scuffing the putter, jabbing it to 4 feet past, etc.
Bcoak, tell us a few things. Your handicap or general skill level. Your average number of putts per round. You predominant misses, long, short, off-line. Tell us what you are thinking during your routine leading up to the actual putt. What is your breathing routine, if any?
Also you never answered the earlier questions about grip, etc.
Yips could be a scuffing the putter, jabbing it to 4 feet past, etc.
Bcoak, tell us a few things. Your handicap or general skill level. Your average number of putts per round. You predominant misses, long, short, off-line. Tell us what you are thinking during your routine leading up to the actual putt. What is your breathing routine, if any?
Also you never answered the earlier questions about grip, etc.
Yips
It's not a broad term if you've had them. YIPS are an INVOLUNTARY SPASM near or at impact. However, if you are looking for common effects of the YIPS -when I've had them - for me - the face wants to flare open. If other "Yippers" can add any other details of their experience - maybe we might run into common effects of the disease which would be a worthwhile process. No offense Steve - but you can tell by your questions that you have never had them. Put in a better way - I think there are two definitions/perceptions of the YIPS - the "real" one is the OUT OF CONROL, INVOLUNTARY SPASM, that shows up when there is pressure to perform or make the putt - not usually in existence when practice putting on the putting green, and usually showing up more - the closer you get to the hole where the expectation/pressure is greater. For those that have never had them - rightfully so - they can't really envision the violent nervous jerk that the YIPS are - they think of someone that has the YIPS as someone that misses short putts consistently, or is erradic, jabs putts - they see the results but they don't understand the out of control nature of it- one way they might envision it would be a mechanical inconsistency. They don't understand that the YIPPER can have a 6 inch putt and they'll be nervous that they won't make it - and sometimes they don't make it - they can't imagine having a four foot putt and missing the cup by a foot or more - from a SPASM.
It's not a broad term if you've had them. YIPS are an INVOLUNTARY SPASM near or at impact. However, if you are looking for common effects of the YIPS -when I've had them - for me - the face wants to flare open. If other "Yippers" can add any other details of their experience - maybe we might run into common effects of the disease which would be a worthwhile process. No offense Steve - but you can tell by your questions that you have never had them. Put in a better way - I think there are two definitions/perceptions of the YIPS - the "real" one is the OUT OF CONROL, INVOLUNTARY SPASM, that shows up when there is pressure to perform or make the putt - not usually in existence when practice putting on the putting green, and usually showing up more - the closer you get to the hole where the expectation/pressure is greater. For those that have never had them - rightfully so - they can't really envision the violent nervous jerk that the YIPS are - they think of someone that has the YIPS as someone that misses short putts consistently, or is erradic, jabs putts - they see the results but they don't understand the out of control nature of it- one way they might envision it would be a mechanical inconsistency. They don't understand that the YIPPER can have a 6 inch putt and they'll be nervous that they won't make it - and sometimes they don't make it - they can't imagine having a four foot putt and missing the cup by a foot or more - from a SPASM.
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softconsult
New
Mike, understand your idea of the YIPS. No, I have never had them.
However, I contend that my questions are legitimate in the search for what
is causing this phenomenon.
A quick Google search yielded some results that argue against your idea and support my idea. Here's one link: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh5nwpgSThE[/media]
However, I contend that my questions are legitimate in the search for what
is causing this phenomenon.
A quick Google search yielded some results that argue against your idea and support my idea. Here's one link: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh5nwpgSThE[/media]
Steve,
Let's define "your idea versus my idea" before we get too confused on what we are talking about. I gather it is that - I don't think that poor aim is what causes the YIPs. Given the Video that you referenced - I would assume that "your idea" is that poor aim is the fundamental cause of the YIPS. Note- that I didn't state what causes the YIPS - I have no idea. However, here is why I don't think poor aim alone causes the YIPS:
1) Without changing anything - a player with the YIPS can putt great on the practice putting green and then first hole on the course - YIP it. Same aim, same alignment.
2) Play in a scramble - you will see your playing partners aiming everywhere with the putter - yet if poor aim (was the only issue) causing the YIPS - then they'd have the YIPS, after all wouldn't they redirect it with their dominant hand? Instead what happens is that they start off aiming somewhere else and then the adjustments they make in their stroke creates the ball starting on line (when they make it). The two - starting aim and stroke - match up to some degree-and it's easier to change the aim rather than the stroke - if you miss it left 10 times in a row - a beginning golfer would usually change their aim not the stroke- that's true whether you are puting or hitting a driver.
3) Just on a simple logic perspective - you have to find it interesting that the Video states that poor aim eventually causes the "dominant" hand to make corrections at impact. Then he proceeds to suggest that you should change the grip to take the dominant hand out of the grip - without going into how to aim properly, why people mis-align, etc. etc. So with my poor alignment - when I take the dominate hand out of the equation - the one that's trying to correct the poor alignment - then I'm never going to make the putt!
WHY WOULDN'T HE JUST DEFINE HOW TO AIM PROPERLY? Finally, let's assume that you had poor aim - and your mind knew it (interesting) - and then your dominate hand made a correction - so that you hit the putt straight - so where's the problem? People aim wrong all the time - with putts, short shots and full swings - however, the combination of their aim and their swing creates reasonable golf shots - without a flinch, spasm, I.E. yip4) He says that the YIPS is not a "Nervous Condition" but a manipulation of the putter at impact. Either he hasn't defined his terms very well in this video or he has no idea what the YIPS are.
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Richie3Jack
New
Valid question, no offense taken.
I believe that the yips are typically involved with aiming issues.
Ask a golfer to putt a ball indoors, not even to a cup, but to a wall. If they yip it then, I wouldn't know what to do.
Plus, I think a lot of the aiming issues are due to poor speed/touch much of the time.
3JACK
softconsult
New
Mike, I can see you want to fight about this topic. I refuse.
I am no expert on the YIP's, and just because you have had them doesn't make you an expert.
I threw out a few ideas, based on my golf experience. The guys I see Yipping it, have lousy grips, handsy strokes, moving bodies, and poor aiming skills. It's not even that we agree to dis-agree. I really don't have a dog in this fight.
This thread demonstrates the difficulty of forum communications. BCoak starts the thread with a minimum of information. I don't know what putt with a shovel actually means. I asked a few questions.
He hasn't responded. Very likely that he hasn't been back to the forum. Also possible that he doesn't choose to respond. Then it takes on a life of it's own with dueling definitions of the YIPS and it's causes.
I made my contribution and have now lost interest with nothing further to add.
I am no expert on the YIP's, and just because you have had them doesn't make you an expert.
I threw out a few ideas, based on my golf experience. The guys I see Yipping it, have lousy grips, handsy strokes, moving bodies, and poor aiming skills. It's not even that we agree to dis-agree. I really don't have a dog in this fight.
This thread demonstrates the difficulty of forum communications. BCoak starts the thread with a minimum of information. I don't know what putt with a shovel actually means. I asked a few questions.
He hasn't responded. Very likely that he hasn't been back to the forum. Also possible that he doesn't choose to respond. Then it takes on a life of it's own with dueling definitions of the YIPS and it's causes.
I made my contribution and have now lost interest with nothing further to add.
Steve,
That's fine. However, I don't see it as "fighting", I'm just trying to validate my point. It's not about you and me - it's about good ideas. I try to provide enough detail to validate my point and then have someone show me it's wrong or off point or add something to help me see a different perspective. Aiming could be part of the problem - but I'd need someone to provide more detail for me. I'm certainly understanding of running out of enthusiasm regarding any particular topic. Certainly, with my history of YIPS I could be clouded in severe emotional dissaray!
on this subject.
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How would you know that the yips were caused by all these lousy grips, handsy strokes, moving bodies? Lots of people do those things and they miss putts but don't have the yips. I see a lot of slicer's that wear shorts and a hat do they slice because of that?
It's involuntary, like a spasm, the real experts aren't even 100% sure of the cause/causes. How to cure it or control it to a degree could be anything from a long putter i.e. Bernhard L. or a different grip ala Mark C.
I believe they knew how to aim before they had the yips and they know how to aim having the yips. Geez you think they haven't checked all their "fundamentals" first?
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bcoak
New
What is your normal grip? Reverse overlap? Yes, but go to claw for fix
Is the shaft aligned with your left forearm? I try to yes
Do you have the grip up the lifeline of your left hand? No, in fingers lately.
Are your forearms level with each other viewed from down the line? I try yes
Ball position? Mid/up
Do you peak at the results early? No.
Description: involuntary flip of right hand open or my whole forearm opens up.
Skill level: Played since 12. Lowest hdcp 2, current 9
Played college golf and Am events.
Is the shaft aligned with your left forearm? I try to yes
Do you have the grip up the lifeline of your left hand? No, in fingers lately.
Are your forearms level with each other viewed from down the line? I try yes
Ball position? Mid/up
Do you peak at the results early? No.
Description: involuntary flip of right hand open or my whole forearm opens up.
Skill level: Played since 12. Lowest hdcp 2, current 9
Played college golf and Am events.
bcoak
New
Sorry, been busy with work. Shovel means I can put any way I choose, any putter, any club and I can make them.
bcoak
New
Anyone yip by closing the putter? His definition would mean that happens. Mine is an open.
softconsult
New
Bcoak, how interesting.
I'm thinking this would be easier if you were a hack. You obviously are a skilled player ,who has tried it all.
Solution? Beats me. Ever tried the long putter or the belly putter? Who was it Langer, I think, that beat the yips with the long putter.
I'm thinking this would be easier if you were a hack. You obviously are a skilled player ,who has tried it all.
Solution? Beats me. Ever tried the long putter or the belly putter? Who was it Langer, I think, that beat the yips with the long putter.
softconsult
New
Maybe a targeted Botox injection!
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