Putting Imperative

[Fingersen]

I know that putting is such an individual thing, but if you guys - Mr Manzella and Co - were to point out some putting imperatives, what would those be?

And - most importantly - how would you go about practicing them? Drill suggestions are highly appreciated (especially indoor drills are most welcome since it's so cold where I live at the moment)

Thanks a bunch

 

[Brian Manzella]

Putting Imperative...Ball flight laws....

There are no special "putting imperatives." (or ball-flight laws)

Either you are on a PLANE or you are not. You either have CLUBFACE control or not, and you either have LOW POINT control or not.

But...ideally, you hit slightly UP on the ball with a slightly forward leaning shaft.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The #1 imperative in putting is hitting the ball in the sweetspot of the putter.

I have not had the time to develop my training aid yet (just too busy with my normal job) but i have found through research that the more you hit that ball on the sweet spot of the putter (time after time) you will be much closer to the hole no matter how you swing the putter.

 

[starretj]

But...ideally, you hit slightly UP on the ball with a slightly forward leaning shaft.

Brian, is this a fairly new insight from you? I don't remember this thought from the past. If it is new, is it from your recent studying and researching of Biomechanics and Physics?

Thanks, as always,
Jim S.

 

[puttmad]

The #1 imperative in putting is hitting the ball in the sweetspot of the putter.

I have not had the time to develop my training aid yet (just too busy with my normal job) but i have found through research that the more you hit that ball on the sweet spot of the putter (time after time) you will be much closer to the hole no matter how you swing the putter.

Sorry Jim, can't agree with you there mate...

Hitting off the sweet spot doesn't mean a thing if the blade is open or closed at impact..

Blade position at impact is more important, even if you miss the sweet spot a bit.

And more important than that is distance control.

Number one is distance control. Without it there is no point in doing anything else....

Where do you live Fingersen?
I would recommend taking a visit to someone who used the SAM Puttlab system......tells you more in five minutes than spending months trying to figure where you may be going wrong.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Sorry Jim, can't agree with you there mate...

Hitting off the sweet spot doesn't mean a thing if the blade is open or closed at impact..

Blade position at impact is more important, even if you miss the sweet spot a bit.

And more important than that is distance control.

Number one is distance control. Without it there is no point in doing anything else....

Let me rephrase...i was being vague because i don't want to let out too much about my product i've designed.

Sweetspot contact is more important that putter path when you are considering % off the line you are aiming on.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Sorry Jim, can't agree with you there mate...

Hitting off the sweet spot doesn't mean a thing if the blade is open or closed at impact..

Blade position at impact is more important, even if you miss the sweet spot a bit.

And more important than that is distance control.

Number one is distance control. Without it there is no point in doing anything else....

Where do you live Fingersen?
I would recommend taking a visit to someone who used the SAM Puttlab system......tells you more in five minutes than spending months trying to figure where you may be going wrong.

Hi Puttmad,

Does the Puttlab teach you how to aim?

Does ownership of a Puttlab entitle you to more credibility as a teacher?

Is your opinion that face angle is more important than sweetspot backed by any research? BTW, I believe it to be true, but am open to some comprehensive research on the subject.

If you have used a Puttlab for any length of time, what are your thoughts on putter path with respect to the Puttlab's numbers and graphs?

 

[Damon Lucas]

There are no special "putting imperatives." (or ball-flight laws)

Either you are on a PLANE or you are not. You either have CLUBFACE control or not, and you either have LOW POINT control or not.

But...ideally, you hit slightly UP on the ball with a slightly forward leaning shaft.

Do you prefer an arched left wrist for this or a bent left elbow?

I think putter fitting is 20 years behind full swing fitting (apart from a select few), and the the variables of loft, length, lie angles,etc, have been transplanted from full swing ideas with little or no regard for the difference in impact conditions, and stroke mechanics from full swing to putting.

My three imperitives are:-
1. Aim;
2. Speed control;
3. Stroke that sends the ball on the intended line

 

[hcw]

GOLF INVENTOR

Let me rephrase...i was being vague because i don't want to let out too much about my product i've designed.

Sweetspot contact is more important that putter path when you are considering % off the line you are aiming on.

hey jim,
thinking about giving this a shot?

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/20206/

 

[Brian Manzella]

Do you prefer an arched left wrist for this or a bent left elbow?

I think putter fitting is 20 years behind full swing fitting (apart from a select few), and the the variables of loft, length, lie angles,etc, have been transplanted from full swing ideas with little or no regard for the difference in impact conditions, and stroke mechanics from full swing to putting.

My three imperitives are:-
1. Aim;
2. Speed control;
3. Stroke that sends the ball on the intended line

How can Aim be an imperative?

Three of the best putters I ever saw, aim left on purpose!

 

[puttmad]

.....

Hi Puttmad,

Does the Puttlab teach you how to aim?

If you take note of your assessment results, yes....

Does ownership of a Puttlab entitle you to more credibility as a teacher?

Most of the guys using the system are PGA pros/teachers (Leadbetter has one, so does Hank Haney). It's much too expensive for the average guy.
TBH the system gives you so much information, any reasonably intelligent golfer can figure the corrections for themselves. It's the precise accuracy of the information it gives you which is important.
The average Joe Bloggs could do the assessment on his own computer if he could afford the gear.

Is your opinion that face angle is more important than sweetspot backed by any research? BTW, I believe it to be true, but am open to some comprehensive research on the subject.

Think of it this way...If you hit a putt just off the sweetspot, it does cost you a little in the distance control department. However, you naturally adjust to that by hiting the ball harder over a period of time. If you constantly hit putts with an incorrect face angle, even something "insignificant" like say 1.5 to 2* open or closed, you have no chance of making the putts.

"Putting experts* have discovered that face misalignment at setup, and open or closed face angle when striking the ball, are the biggest causes of missed putts.
*D.Pelz, Golf, Sept. 1998, pp 96-97; S. Elkington, Golf Tips, August 1998, p 49."

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/tandf/rjsp/2006/00000024/00000002/art00005

If you have used a Puttlab for any length of time, what are your thoughts on putter path with respect to the Puttlab's numbers and graphs?

The puttlab system has a rating system with regard to the "correct" parameters each part of the stroke should abide by. I am not in agreement with all of them TBH, but the point is, do the tests, review and study the info (the system does not lie) and then make adjustments to your stroke where you think neccessary..

For example, one of the points in my case, was that I was slightly out to in on my stroke. My blade position at impact was 0.10* open (1/10th of a degree) over 70% of the time, so I still made the putts in any case.
Being a perfectionist I went out and bought a bulilders laser to help me establish a different backswing criteria and get it more on line.
Not that I think it's that important to holing putts, just that I want an even better result next time I go and get assessed...

 

[birdie_man]

But...ideally, you hit slightly UP on the ball with a slightly forward leaning shaft.

That's different from your old putting article no?

 

[Damon Lucas]

How can Aim be an imperative?

Three of the best putters I ever saw, aim left on purpose!

Fair enough! Imperitive is probably too strong a word for putting.

I do think the ability to aim is fairly important. Yes you can aim anywhere and do enough repetitions with your compensating stroke to become a good putter, but would you, Brian, teach anyone to aim left with their putter?

Where would you 'rank' aim?

 

[Brian Manzella]

As always...it depends.

Sure, 99% of the time, I teach golfers to aim dead straight.

But if you float a bit, like Don Villavaso, Chris Hamburger, Ben Doyle, and Bob Charles, then you need to aim at IMPACT FIX and return to ADJUSTED ADDRESS.

 

[birdie_man]

I don't get it! ))

 

[bts]

Hit it or not.

I know that putting is such an individual thing, but if you guys - Mr Manzella and Co - were to point out some putting imperatives, what would those be?

And - most importantly - how would you go about practicing them? Drill suggestions are highly appreciated (especially indoor drills are most welcome since it's so cold where I live at the moment)

Thanks a bunch

Like other shots from drive to chip, "hit the ball without (thinking of) hitting the ball".

Drill? It's up to your intent.

 

[RicoSuave]

hip to be square

well, I did some research at home on my indoor-putting-green
with my self-made plane board (nearly matching the angle of the shaft):

following things came out and match to the principles of Brian and SFTPS:

1.) (aiming square) the most important thing is to hit the ball square in....

2.) ...the sweetspot (because if you miss the sweetspot the putterhead is
twisting and therefore opening or closing. -> the putterhead is the same
"free hanging mass" as is the driverhead, so you can´t manipulate the impact
and can´t force the head to stay square. Thus MOI is very important for putterhads!)

3.) (swinging 10 degrees left) - so I turned the plane board 10 degrees left but
aimed with the putter to the hole ...... the ball fell dead straght into the cup,
altough coming outside in. That proofs the theory, that the ball nearly leaves the
face perpendicular and as there is nearly no sidespin while putting the swingpath
is not important, as long you can manage not to manipulate the clubface with your hands.
(clubface controll)

All this I tried with : push basic stroke, swinging, shoulder driven, hands driven,
hands without arms and shoulders, cross gripping (left hand below right)....

I tell you .. all this works, as the ball doesn´t care.
Just use the technique you like most to keep the head square to the line you are aiming,
AND of course the pace is always important esp. when there is a brake.

 

[Fingersen]

PuttingMad: If its shown that face misalignment at setup is one of the biggest reasons for missed putts, do you then know of a putter that has markings or something similar that lets you set up with the face aligned properly every time.

Also a putter with room for an alignment line so you can detect your swing path and by that decrease the times your path is wrong and you hit putts with incorrect face angles.

 

[Damon Lucas]

There are many reasons for misaiming, and what you aim badly!

You can be badly aimed with the putterhead, and .... the eyes, shoulder, head.
Allignment aids may or may not help, but other factors could also be taken into account when looking at this subject,

ie loft(of putterhead), lie, length, shape, hoseling, color, lines or no lines,

and then you have ball position, proximity from feet, eye tendencies, and possibly much more.

I would start with your eyes and head, work outwards if necessary, and see if you improve.

 

[puttmad]

..

PuttingMad: If its shown that face misalignment at setup is one of the biggest reasons for missed putts, do you then know of a putter that has markings or something similar that lets you set up with the face aligned properly every time.

Also a putter with room for an alignment line so you can detect your swing path and by that decrease the times your path is wrong and you hit putts with incorrect face angles.

I do know one putter that fits the bill...... mine....

See here: http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o233/andrew7_bucket/image002.jpg

Bear in mind that I added all the lines onto the putter (they are done with car customising coach stripes) and had the face milled so it was pefectly flat.

You probably can't get hold of one of these now

However, a couple of alternatives may fit the bill:

1) Nicklaus Brass ring Putter. I really like these, but they are a tad expensive.

2) This one: http://www.gear4golfusa.com/reverb.html

Not expensive.
You would have to add a line across the front of the face (for impact alignment)

Then get the laser I told you about in the other post and you're on your way..