putting like chipping

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I recently experimented with putting like I'm chipping. Obviously not exactly like I'm chipping, but just feeling the clubhead a bit more and slightly softer wrists. Works well...but I'm not sure why, because it feels like I have more moving parts and maybe a bit of clubhead throwaway :eek:
 
I have no idea with you Leo.....but Bobby Locke had one of the weirdest strokes of all time as far as I can tell.....and he was a freaking Dy Na Moe.
 
I recently experimented with putting like I'm chipping. Obviously not exactly like I'm chipping, but just feeling the clubhead a bit more and slightly softer wrists. Works well...but I'm not sure why, because it feels like I have more moving parts and maybe a bit of clubhead throwaway :eek:

it works because you don't feel like a robot anymore.
 

Brian Manzella

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Manzella Putting Matrix and Putting Pattern #1

As you will see when the video comes out Leo.

You are on to something.

Of course, I am assuming that your chipping stroke was more PGA Tour-like and less Flipper like, no?
 
As you will see when the video comes out Leo.

You are on to something.

Of course, I am assuming that your chipping stroke was more PGA Tour-like and less Flipper like, no?
I guess so...there's definitely some forward lean at impact but soft wrists at follow thru.
 
Any LCT in there?

I recently experimented with putting like I'm chipping. Obviously not exactly like I'm chipping, but just feeling the clubhead a bit more and slightly softer wrists. Works well...but I'm not sure why, because it feels like I have more moving parts and maybe a bit of clubhead throwaway :eek:

Any lagging clubhead takeaway (LCT) in there? or just a feeling?

LCT is so natural to me now sometimes it creeps into my putting and well - I don't notice anything bad about it to be honest.
 
Any lagging clubhead takeaway (LCT) in there? or just a feeling?

LCT is so natural to me now sometimes it creeps into my putting and well - I don't notice anything bad about it to be honest.
no LCT, but right wrist feels slightly more bent during takeaway....and releases slightly at impact.
 
I recently experimented with putting like I'm chipping. Obviously not exactly like I'm chipping, but just feeling the clubhead a bit more and slightly softer wrists. Works well...but I'm not sure why, because it feels like I have more moving parts and maybe a bit of clubhead throwaway :eek:

I can relate to that. I've always putted with a forward-lean feel. A slight forward press begins the stroke....then just concentrate on feeling the clubhead as the left hand/forearm acts as the steering wheel and the right hand/arm as the gas pedal. Works for me.
 
no LCT, but right wrist feels slightly more bent during takeaway....and releases slightly at impact.

That's what I've been doing since two lessons with Brian that included some time on the putting green.

It's been freaking out the guys I play with.

I feel better about the stroke when I (a) make putts (which I've been doing) and (b) watch video of players from the '50s and 60's.

Eliminating the "bounce-back" in puting and chipping has been the biggest thing, though. I'm dying to watch the putting video.
 
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I'm not sure about wrist release for putting, especially for shorter putts.

On a straight, 10-foot putt, a face-angle deviance of slightly more than one degree will cause the putt to miss the hole.

Because of this, I think it's important to keep the hands as quiet as possible. Also, according to the SAM puttlab research video that was posted a while back, it's beneficial to strike the ball with a rise angle that exceeds the delivered loft. I think this is much harder to do with a right wrist that is releasing through the ball.

Putting all the numbers and science aside, it just seems much easier, simpler, and more repeatable to putt with "dead hands." Forward lean and an active wrist seem like needless complications.

I guess I would need a solid explanation for why it's advantageous to lean the shaft forward, deloft the putter going back, and then add loft (how much?) coming through.
 
What's the definition of delivered loft?

I'm pretty sure it's the angle of the face (off a line perpendicular to the ground) when the putter first makes contact with the ball. The putter's actual loft obviously never changes, but its relationship to the plane of the ground does.
 
According to the SAM puttlab folks, why should a putter have any loft at all?

I don't know, but I can tell you that there isn't an OEM on the planet that designs its putters with anything even remotely resembling a bonafied scientific approach. Just go to Golf Galaxy and take a stroll through the putter section. If you're like me, you'll think to yourself, "What the hell is this crap?"

Let's go back in time to the turn of the 20th century. The average putting green surface most likely resembled the fringe of your modern run-of-the-mill public course. In that time, the putting stroke closely resembled the chipping stroke because the surfaces the ball was struck from closely resembled each other.

Harry Vardon and and his contemporaries putted like they chipped because their greens were lumpy and necessitated that type of motion. Even into the '70s, some tour pros had wristy strokes and used putters with a lot of loft. I'm sure you can think of plenty who fit the bill.

The game changes though. Greens became smoother and the putting stroke became less handsy as a result. In my opinion, the evolution of the golfing motions have reflected the change in course conditioning and length. A powerful, modern pivot is required to hit nine-iron into a 480-yard par four, and a correspondingly modern putting stroke is required to make the sliding 12-footer on a green that's rolling at 12 on the stimp.

The average putter today has approximately 3.5 degrees of loft, and I'd bet the farm that that number is completely arbitrary, or at best, a remnant from a bygone era when putters did need a lot of loft. Why don't putters have zero degrees of loft? Probably because the OEM folks don't have the SAM folks' phone number, or even the desire to disrupt the status quo and threaten their bottom line. Innovation, even when backed by scientific research, is a risk few OEM's are willing to take.

However, there is a handful of small putter companies who are challenging tradtition and making putters with a consideration of the physics of putting. Here are a few that have caught my attention:

Torpedo Golf
Positive Putter
Inseyed Putters
Quantum Golf Putters

Even if you disagree with their approach or just think the putters are goofy, you can at least respect the desire to make something that is truly new and governed by scientific principles rather than ritzy-titzy marketing.

I expect the OEMs to start applying physics to their putter designs at about the same time Diora Baird shows up at my front door with a marriage proposal and a tray of freshly-baked chocolate chip cookies.
 
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