ggsjpc
New
Great addition on the D Plane application!
Question about launch angle
- Thread starter mgranato
- Start date
- Status
Great addition on the D Plane application!
birdie_man
New
High friction contact...good term...
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
The higher the friction and the higher the clubhead speed the more the path influences direction but it tips at a certain %.
Michael Finney
New
good thread.....friction and sound account for the lower launches....along with previously discussed shaft lean and vertical gear effect....all of these factors add up to what trackman explains as cut angle....i think
Michael Finney
New
i'm assuming the ball sliding and then rolling on the face before it takes off....the more off center or oblique strike (face, path, attack angle errors) the more friction is created (but interestingly enough, the less sound)...
i am currently making this up as i go....
Matt Bryda
New
O.K. Kevin... Did you learn this stuff from owning a Trackman. Could you hace figured this increased friction/increased clubhead speed thing out with just D Plane knowledge?
This is too cool!!
Matt
Matt Bryda
New
This makes sense.
A decrease of mass to balance off the face equals an increase in friction.
equals skewed numbers on Trackman
Matt
"Sounds good"....ha ha.
Thinking out loud here....I am trying to hone in on friction being a Cause or an Effect of path being more influential or not.
Seems logical that the more the path equals the face, the less friction that is created.
Take an example of an 8-iron hit perfectly straight to the target. No side spin. Sweetspot contact. Let's forget about the backspin or vertical element for now.
Both the face and the path are going straight to the target. So the initial ball flight is 100% in the direction of both the face and the path (horizontal aspect only!).
Now we start to put a little fade on the 8-iron shot. We likely increase the horizontal friction between the face and the ball. Now what happens?
Didn't we learn from D-plane that the face and path start to loose their 100% influence on the ball's initial direction? But doesn't the path loose its influence at a faster rate than the face? In other words, even though the face is not a 100% influence on the initial direction, the initial direction stays closer to the face than to the path.
So here's my main point. Even though Kevin's comment about increasing friction makes path more influential is absolutely true from a theoretical view, the way friction is created (from the constant variables I gave!) is to have the face diverge from the path, but this, in turn, makes face more influential relative to path.
Thinking out loud here....I am trying to hone in on friction being a Cause or an Effect of path being more influential or not.
Seems logical that the more the path equals the face, the less friction that is created.
Take an example of an 8-iron hit perfectly straight to the target. No side spin. Sweetspot contact. Let's forget about the backspin or vertical element for now.
Both the face and the path are going straight to the target. So the initial ball flight is 100% in the direction of both the face and the path (horizontal aspect only!).
Now we start to put a little fade on the 8-iron shot. We likely increase the horizontal friction between the face and the ball. Now what happens?
Didn't we learn from D-plane that the face and path start to loose their 100% influence on the ball's initial direction? But doesn't the path loose its influence at a faster rate than the face? In other words, even though the face is not a 100% influence on the initial direction, the initial direction stays closer to the face than to the path.
So here's my main point. Even though Kevin's comment about increasing friction makes path more influential is absolutely true from a theoretical view, the way friction is created (from the constant variables I gave!) is to have the face diverge from the path, but this, in turn, makes face more influential relative to path.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Wont make it start closer to the face, only curve more.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Numbers are from Trackman but the general idea can be from just DPlane knowledge.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Only low on the face or on the heel. High or on toe is less.
Of course, but I didn't say that.
I said that as you diverge the path from the face, it moves away from the path, even with the increased friction.
mgranato
New
I asked this same original question to Wishon Golf, this is what they had to say...
"It's not exactly that because the ball can slide a bit and release with a higher launch angle and in determining optimal performance you'd really be looking at what the ball is doing anyhow, but the rough math is correct.
If we assume that 85% of initial ball direction (Launch Angle in this case) is caused by face orientation, then we'd assume dynamic loft at impact (shaft lean/deloft + AofA) to be 19* (19* x 0.85=16)to have a 16* launch angle. If we assume a 2* contribution from angle of attack, then shaft lean should be about 17*.
So it's pretty much close enough for figuring purposes."
They do extensive studies on shaft and clubhead performance with both high speed video and Trackman. Thought it would be interesting to get a pov from that angle.
"It's not exactly that because the ball can slide a bit and release with a higher launch angle and in determining optimal performance you'd really be looking at what the ball is doing anyhow, but the rough math is correct.
If we assume that 85% of initial ball direction (Launch Angle in this case) is caused by face orientation, then we'd assume dynamic loft at impact (shaft lean/deloft + AofA) to be 19* (19* x 0.85=16)to have a 16* launch angle. If we assume a 2* contribution from angle of attack, then shaft lean should be about 17*.
So it's pretty much close enough for figuring purposes."
They do extensive studies on shaft and clubhead performance with both high speed video and Trackman. Thought it would be interesting to get a pov from that angle.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I would be curious to know more because i dont appear on video to have ten degrees of lean. However, i rarely have the camera perpendicular to my plane line, which is left........hmmm
Matt Bryda
New
So what does 10 dergrees look like on video?
Does it seem like a lot, visually?
Matt
mgranato
New
I think it depends on how long the "stick" is to have a visual reference. An example would be a clock, when the second hand is on the two minute mark it's 12* from vertical.
I put my 7 iron in my Mitchell and set it up to give the shaft 18* of forward lean trying to get a visual of what it looked like - IIRC, it was 11'' of forward lean from vertical from the tip of the grip. For my build, that puts the handle right around the edge of my left hip.
Last edited:
- Status