Question for Mandrin

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ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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Like I said before, it's great to see you back.

I've been doing a bunch a research on gear effect with iron heads.

I hear that the COG is too close to the face that it doesn't occur and I've heard that it does occur.

According to tuxen at trackman it does exist and I've asked Kevin if he had done any research on the topic(granted, only like 10 minutes ago) but I thought I would ask a science person also.

What would be the math surrounding this problem and what is the real answer?
 
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mandrin

mandrin

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ggsjpc said:
Like I said before, it's great to see you back.

I've been doing a bunch a research on gear effect with iron heads.

I hear that the COG is too close to the face that it doesn't occur and I've heard that it does occur.

According to tuxen at trackman it does exist and I've asked Kevin if he had done any research on the topic(granted, only like 10 minutes ago) but I thought I would ask a science person also.

What would be the math surrounding this problem and what is the real answer?
Click to expand...
swing_gearEffect.jpg

ggsjpc,

I never delved into the gear effect and taking into account properly the mathematics of friction and compression by just thinking about for a few minutes is not something I pretend being able to do.

However, if you look at the nice illustration, taken form David Tutelman's (an engineer) web site, one can see that the motion for a iron, where it contacts the club face, due to an off-center hit, is way more vertical than for a driver. It is the indeed the horizontal motion which is behind the gear effect.

Therefore it seem to be logical to pretend that if irons also had a gear effect like a driver than they would be designed equally with a horizontal bulge to offset this gear effect.

Just some very quick observations, so don't take it for granted too much. Keep searching for the truth. ;)
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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Mandy, good to have you back - it now means I don't have to go to the pub and get drunk to have weird conversations...

Do you believe that gear effect induces side spin a "non d-plane effect" - ie. clubhead -ball slipping during impact interval?

Thanks

GBD - just a puppy in your presence! ;):D:cool:
 
Matt 4-L

Matt 4-L

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I wonder if there is a difference between game improvement irons where they move the weight back/down as far as they can with those big flange "thingys" hanging off the back versus a muscle back blade. Hmmmm.
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

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Someone told me about the iron-woods that Tour Edge makes for their game improvement irons. Maybe in the future, better players clubs will have a little too.
 
mandrin

mandrin

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golfbulldog said:
Mandy, good to have you back - it now means I don't have to go to the pub and get drunk to have weird conversations...

Do you believe that gear effect induces side spin a "non d-plane effect" - ie. clubhead -ball slipping during impact interval?

Thanks

GBD - just a puppy in your presence! ;):D:cool:
Click to expand...

golfbulldog,

One can't have instantaneous roll of ball on club face as this would imply infinite acceleration.

Hence there has to be some slip during the compression phase during with friction force builds up extremely fast, causing subsequent rotation.

This applies to both the vertical and the horizontal component of spin.

Am glad to be useful preventing you to sink into alcoholism. :cool:
 
Matt Bryda

Matt Bryda

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Mandrin,

Your answer to the previous question reminds me of something that came up at the GTE. There was a short discussion about the new groove rule and sand wedges. I was sort in the background listening but I think the debate was about wether or not the sandpaper like finish on wedges has an effect on the amount of spin generated by the contact with the clubhead. Or is it just the groove depth and shape that is the main factor with generating spin?

Thanks for all the great information you provide!

Matt
 
mandrin

mandrin

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sideyard said:
Mandrin,

Your answer to the previous question reminds me of something that came up at the GTE. There was a short discussion about the new groove rule and sand wedges. I was sort in the background listening but I think the debate was about wether or not the sandpaper like finish on wedges has an effect on the amount of spin generated by the contact with the clubhead. Or is it just the groove depth and shape that is the main factor with generating spin?

Thanks for all the great information you provide!

Matt
Click to expand...
Matt,

I am not very familiar with these subjects, but can mention the little I know.

If there was no friction than there would be spin at all, hence friction plays an important role.
However, increasing the friction too much can again reduce the spin. Counterintuitive.
There is an optimum friction depending on factors such as clubhead speed, loft etc..
Definitely an area needing extensive experimental research for conclusive answers.

The grooves can be compared to car tire treads.
They are primarily mainly to evacuate water to avoid aquaplaning and seemingly have minor effect on spin for normal dry conditions.
Therefore hitting out of thick grass they do their job but make little difference when hitting under normal condition from the fairway.
Square grooves can evacuate more water than V-shaped grooves being therefore even more efficient hitting from the rough.
 
P

puttmad

New
...

Matt F. said:
I wonder if there is a difference between game improvement irons where they move the weight back/down as far as they can with those big flange "thingys" hanging off the back versus a muscle back blade. Hmmmm.
Click to expand...

Bought a trial muscleback from Maltby a while back, supposed to be forged etc.........compared to cavities....yuk.....
 
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