Question for Redgoat

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pixie

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Redgoat,
I read your recent posts. You would prefer not to see too much axis tilt.
How about the arched left wrist at impact? Isn't the degree to which you arch your left wrist related to how much axis tilt you have?

ie. since you don't advise too much axis tilt, am correct to assume that you probably don't teach an arched left wrist at impact?
 
Redgoat

Redgoat

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Pixie,

You are correct that I prefer to see less tilt rather than more. I don't think that the amount of tilt you have is necessarily related to the degree which the left wrist is arched. For example, Brian's picture of Trevino at the top of the page shows increased tilt with arched (bowed) wrist. However, Weir has more tilt than Els with less of a bowed wrist.

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=4f215e4d-7c9a-676c-7aa4-5b7159ea11b2&size=

As far as the arched wrists is concerned, you are correct. A flat left wrist is good enough for me. Excessive bowing causes the potential for insertional tendenitis (something I am personally familiar with) that can be devistating to the golfers future. If a player comes to me with it bowed and is effective I would leave it alone, otherwise I wouldn't encourage it.

Redgoat
 
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densikat

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Redgoat,

Have you got the previous frame of Weir, the shot seems just after impact, unlike Els who is right at impact.
 
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pixie

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Redgoat,
I just saw the 2004 Golf Digest Instruction Magazine Special.

On page 82, there's a picture of you doing a drill where you take your address position and then lift the club straight up (vertical). Doesn't this cock the right wrist?

According to some posters on this site (including Brian), this is an "incorrect" drill and leads to a cocking of the right (trail) wrist instead of just a bent right wrist. Are you also cocking your right wrist? Can you comment on this please?

Thanks
 
Redgoat

Redgoat

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pixie,

Wow, that was an old article!

Nice catch about the wrists. I don't like the right wrist to bend back upon itself in the takeaway. I prefer the left wrist to stay slightly "cupped" to the top. This will cause the right wrist to "cock" slightly. The slightly cupped left wrist keeps the clubshaft more vertical on the backswing where it can loop or shallow in the transition. This is my preference.

If the player is effective with the left wrist flat at the top then so be it. However, it is only important to me that it is flat in the delivery and impact, not at the top.

I could go into my reasons for not bending it back immediately but then I would be rambling on...

Redgoat
 
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ej20

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quote:Originally posted by Redgoat

pixie,

Wow, that was an old article!

Nice catch about the wrists. I don't like the right wrist to bend back upon itself in the takeaway. I prefer the left wrist to stay slightly "cupped" to the top. This will cause the right wrist to "cock" slightly. The slightly cupped left wrist keeps the clubshaft more vertical on the backswing where it can loop or shallow in the transition. This is my preference.

If the player is effective with the left wrist flat at the top then so be it. However, it is only important to me that it is flat in the delivery and impact, not at the top.

I could go into my reasons for not bending it back immediately but then I would be rambling on...

Redgoat
Click to expand...
Yes,my understanding is also that it's easier to loop the club down on a shallow inside path with a more upright backswing...and keeping the left wrist cupped during the takeaway encourages that.

Do you have any preferential move/s to initiate the inside loop from the top?

Sorry Pixie for the threadjack[:I]
 
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pixie

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quote:Originally posted by Redgoat

pixie,

...I don't like the right wrist to bend back upon itself in the takeaway. I prefer the left wrist to stay slightly "cupped" to the top. This will cause the right wrist to "cock" slightly. The slightly cupped left wrist keeps the clubshaft more vertical on the backswing where it can loop or shallow in the transition. This is my preference.

I could go into my reasons for not bending it back immediately but then I would be rambling on...

Redgoat
Click to expand...

Interesting. I think that high handicappers have the clubhead leading the hands at impact, even though they know that the hands should be leading the clubhead at impact. But, as you get more experienced, it's not hard to have the clubshaft leaning forward at impact. My "confusion" is:

on the weekend I met a couple of PGA lesson pros when playing hockey. They are not "nationally" famous. But I know that they shoot good scores consistently.
I asked them about the right wrist bend, Faldo's book (where he talks about the right wrist bend), and TGM. Their answer was that thinking about the idea of max right wrist bend too much can f--- up your swing.
 
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denny.

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Thinking about any move can mess up any swing. Doing an uncompensated motion is the goal.Hold hammer and hit nail(vertical wall horizontal waist high nail) .What does rt wrist do? It bends!!
 
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pixie

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Denny,
just the person I wanted to see...
I read the Peter Croker Path to Better Golf book again.
he said, in the book, that the left wrist was uncocked at impact (not level...clubshaft in line with left arm from up-the-line view), and that keeping the right wrist bent was a power loss.

I still am surprised about the "uncocked left wrist" part, and don't understand this.
 
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pixie

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quote:Originally posted by denny.

Hold hammer and hit nail(vertical wall horizontal waist high nail). What does rt wrist do? It bends!!
Click to expand...

perhaps the right wrist unbends a little coming into impact? Peter Croker?
Even with the slight "unbend" the hand can still lead the clubhead/hammerhead coming into impact ...?
 
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denny.

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Feel is different then real. Left wrist is level at impact and uncocked at seperation. Any rt. wrist un bending is a left wrist bending.Uncocking and rolling is fine as long as shaft stays radially inline.A flick swinggyde hits on left wrist on both sides.Set it at 2 O'clock on set up not as Jim Flip says at 12 o'clock
 
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pixie

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Even with slapshots in hockey, the stick is leaning forward when it first impacts the puck. I think Hebron used to use the example of a slapshot when talking about golf swing impact.

But if the hockey stick is lagging too far behind, or right wrist is too bent, it makes for an ineffective slapshot.

Is it different for the golf swing impact?

For a short iron, anybody could still hit decent looking golf shots with too much right wrist bend or club shaft forward lean. You can even hit good golf shots with too much throwaway. But I guess the real difference is seen when you get to the long irons. [?]
 
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pixie

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If I ever see the book again, I will try to find the exact page.

Thanks for the link

It's interesting that he talks about an uncocking of BOTH wrists, not just the left wrist.
 
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TYORKE1

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Does all this conversation basically pertain to how high the right shoulder is on the way down, I have been working on keeping the right shoulder a little higher coming down , I might not be correct but that is what it looks like, TIM
 
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denny.

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Croker attended a 30 day class by Tom Tomesello G.S.E.D. and learned to teach a Hitting method.I attended a 2 day class taught by Peter and it was a great help to my game and teaching. He added a couple things .
Top of left wrist level at impact and uncocked at seperation.
 
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