Question on moving from strong to neutral grip

[scratchgolfer]

I am moving from a strong to a neutral grip (Manzella neutral). My results so far have been interesting. My shots are much higher than before all the way through the bag. My driver distance is very good, maybe even better than before. However, my irons have lost a bit of their punch. The look and feel is that of a floater. With a strong grip I definitely trapped my irons and took a divot, especially with mid to short irons. With the neutral it feels like I am much shallower and tending to catch the ball on the bottom two grooves.

Thoughts?

Note: I decided to make this change after one too many tournament rounds going to heck with the dreaded pull draws / hooks. It does appear it is much more difficult to hit a nasty pull with the neutral grip . . . but maybe that is until I learn to release properly and compress the ball with this grip.

 

[Lifter]

How the heck did you successfully neutralize your grip, scratchgolfer???? That's exactly what I'm trying to do. What swing changes did you have to make in order to hit the ball solidly with that awkward grip?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Maybe its not awkward for him. He might have just looked at the new grip and realized the different things he had to do. Scratch, you may have answered your own question in your Note portion.

 

[Matt Bryda]

scratchgolfer,
Check out Brian's newest video about how to hit razor sharp irons.
I think this information will help you.

 

[scratchgolfer]

Lifter,

A couple things. I am just two days into the process. I expect it to take 4 - 5 weeks at 1000 balls per week before I am even close to comfortable with it. In the beginning stages I expect to learn what I need to do to make the grip work. What I have learned over the last two days:

My release with the strong grip will not work with the neutral grip. My old release (wrists, forearms, pivot, etc) held the face rotation off. For example, with the strong grip I had a lot of lateral knee drive. I also did not have much forearm rotation / "wrist turn down". If I had a flat wrist at impact or any rotation. . . the shot was dead left.

I knew I had to change my pivot to be more "shift weight left and rotate" vs. drive hips / knees to target. What I learned today based on observing ball flight yesterday and Flightscope data today was that I needed to modify my wrist / forearm action to feel like I am compressing the ball and flighting it properly. I FEEL (not sure this is what is really happening) like I actually have to turn down my left wrist as I reach impact and allow my forearms to rotate post impact. This takes some loft off the club (verified by launch monitor numbers) and squares the face for me without flipping it. BTW, I think "twistaway" accomplishes the same thing . . . hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong in that regard.

Good luck with your change and I will let you know if I find any more nuggets that help me.

SG

 

[G.O.L.F.]

Pull vs. Closed clubface

I knew I had to change my pivot to be more "shift weight left and rotate" vs. drive hips / knees to target.

There's a difference between a Pull and a shot that goes left because of a Closed Clubface.

It might be helpful to ascertain what role your pivot plays when you hit the pull/hook, the resultant clubpath; and then the relationship between your clubface and clubpath.

Check out Brian's "Never Hook Again 2". At $10, it's a steal. It includes an excellent drill for the rotation you seek, as well as additional assurances that your path and clubface are under your control.

Best of luck.

 

[Lifter]

Lifter,

A couple things. I am just two days into the process. I expect it to take 4 - 5 weeks at 1000 balls per week before I am even close to comfortable with it. In the beginning stages I expect to learn what I need to do to make the grip work. What I have learned over the last two days:

My release with the strong grip will not work with the neutral grip. My old release (wrists, forearms, pivot, etc) held the face rotation off. For example, with the strong grip I had a lot of lateral knee drive. I also did not have much forearm rotation / "wrist turn down". If I had a flat wrist at impact or any rotation. . . the shot was dead left.

I knew I had to change my pivot to be more "shift weight left and rotate" vs. drive hips / knees to target. What I learned today based on observing ball flight yesterday and Flightscope data today was that I needed to modify my wrist / forearm action to feel like I am compressing the ball and flighting it properly. I FEEL (not sure this is what is really happening) like I actually have to turn down my left wrist as I reach impact and allow my forearms to rotate post impact. This takes some loft off the club (verified by launch monitor numbers) and squares the face for me without flipping it. BTW, I think "twistaway" accomplishes the same thing . . . hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong in that regard.

Good luck with your change and I will let you know if I find any more nuggets that help me.

SG

SG,

As I read your post, I was thinking "Wow, this guy's swing is just like mine (same hold-off release, etc.)." But then I read that modifying your release is really working for you. I've tried to do that, but it hasn't done much for me. Instead, I've found that I get results when I try to make shove my handpath down more vertically after the transition. I think once I've mastered that, then I might be advanced enough to move on to the release. Sounds like you're in a different place then me.

Will be very interested in reading about your progress.

Lifter

 

[scratchgolfer]

Lifter,

Not so fast, we may be a bit more similar than you think. A couple more hours in the garage with the Flightscope "digging it out of the dirt" and a little more learning and I found the vertical hand path is key as well. One step at a time. My iron distances are now "back to normal." Additional positive is that I can hit both draws and fades more consistently.

The biggest gap at this point is my driver. With my strong grip, I can swing more aggressively AND keep my spin down (107mph club head speed, 153mph ball speed, 2800 back spin, 258yds carry). With my weaker grip, I can generate the club head speed, but when I do, my spin numbers are off the chart high (3900 - 4500 rpm). I can only swing the club at about 80 percent of my normal effort which gets me about 100mph in club head speed, 147 mph, spin of about 2400, and a carry of about 250. Hopefully I will figure this part out soon.

 

[spktho]

The biggest gap at this point is my driver. With my strong grip, I can swing more aggressively AND keep my spin down (107mph club head speed, 153mph ball speed, 2800 back spin, 258yds carry). With my weaker grip, I can generate the club head speed, but when I do, my spin numbers are off the chart high (3900 - 4500 rpm). I can only swing the club at about 80 percent of my normal effort which gets me about 100mph in club head speed, 147 mph, spin of about 2400, and a carry of about 250. Hopefully I will figure this part out soon.

Please let us know what you find out about this. I'm in about the same place as you with the driver--can kill the irons with the vertical hand path and low hands at impact, but same as you with the ballooning drivers.

 

[Lifter]

I actually don't see how a Hogan or Sergio-like tumble would result in an increased spin rate but maybe someone with greater knowledge could shed light on this.

 

[birdie_man]

Good post Scratch.

With a neut grip, to take much of a divot at all (and I don't want much of a down hit with a normal lie):

-full roll and/or twiswaway
-arch it more at the top
-more weight on left foot, if sacrificing power is not a problem

Sometimes tough w short irons, to hit em solid enough, and to not miss right. It simply is tough to get that much (or TOO much) fwd lean without doing the above things. That can be a good thing though, if you can make it work. (the less you hit down the less you scew your resultant path right) A high flight is nice too, most of the time.

Don't get your pivot and path all outta wack (reverse pivot and too left, respectively) trying for down. Happened to me for about a two week stretch, that I am just fixing. (well though, so far)