Release description

[hp12c]

In other words, there is no force across the shaft.

 

[art]

Art thank you for the further eplanation. I want to make sure I understand this pulling force. When I swing full with a 5 iron its pulling on my hands,arms, shoulders, torso as if I was swinging a 100lb weight is that correct?

Dear hp12c,

NO!!,

Sorry for that. Please go read the last few posts more carefully, as there are 4 forces moving all around in 3D space, and acting on your body with ANY club, at any time during the downswing.

My research suggests that the destabilizing forces at impact are PROBABLY pulling your body with forces that range up to 150 pounds with a driver,up to 100 pounds with a 5 iron, BUT with a proper amount of BBKIB, it could be much less in all cases, due to the action of the lower body.

Regards,
art

 

[hp12c]

Dear hp12c,

NO!!,

Sorry for that. Please go read the last few posts more carefully, as there are 4 forces moving all around in 3D space, and acting on your body with ANY club, at any time during the downswing.

My research suggests that the destabilizing forces at impact are PROBABLY pulling your body with forces that range up to 150 pounds with a driver,up to 100 pounds with a 5 iron, BUT with a proper amount of BBKIB, it could be much less in all cases, due to the action of the lower body.

Regards,
art

I had to google and read up on newton and forces, laws etc, for every action there is an apposite and equal reaction,forces come in pairs so if I create a force that is pulling during my swing I must also create an apposite force to resist the pulling correct?

 

[art]

I had to google and read up on newton and forces, laws etc, for every action there is an apposite and equal reaction,forces come in pairs so if I create a force that is pulling during my swing I must also create an apposite force to resist the pulling correct?

Dear hp12c,

I applaud your curiosity and efforts to better understand the complicated 'forces' acting during the golf swing.

To directly answer your question, YES, for every force, there is an equal and opposite reaction force, BUT if not completely restrained, MOTION will occur, because Force also equals mass times acceleration, so the resultant residual force will actually MOVE (or in the case of our body, also bend) the element the forces are working on.

So, in the case of the SINGLE force you have been asking about, the centripetal force on the hands from the rotational velocity of the club, here is what happens. The 100 pound force PULLS on the hands at such an angle that, if at say a 45 degree club plane angle at impact, 70 pounds are pulling you horizontally OVER the ball, and 70 pounds are going vertically downward, and increasing your 'apparent' weight.

BUT, since the horizontal component is acting back up the arms, into the shoulders, and causing an additional force related problem, a torque that has to be resisted by the muscles in your torso, holding you in the bent over, impact position. So the REACTION force you are looking for will be the feet pushing both vertically and horizontally on the ground, but there will be internal reactions to the torques mentioned above, too.

And that is just 1 of the 4 centripetal forces acting at impact. The 'short-cut' I used was to add the 4 force vectors in 3D during 5 points in the swing to get a feel how the body is being pushed and pulled during the down swing.

I did not make this complicated on purpose, it just is a very complicated 'kinetic' set of conditions and the reason we need the REAL SCIENTISTS and their computer programs to focus on it, and hopefully soon.

Thanks for asking, and doing your homework too.

Regards,
art

 

[hp12c]

Dear hp12c,

I applaud your curiosity and efforts to better understand the complicated 'forces' acting during the golf swing.

To directly answer your question, YES, for every force, there is an equal and opposite reaction force, BUT if not completely restrained, MOTION will occur, because Force also equals mass times acceleration, so the resultant residual force will actually MOVE (or in the case of our body, also bend) the element the forces are working on.

So, in the case of the SINGLE force you have been asking about, the centripetal force on the hands from the rotational velocity of the club, here is what happens. The 100 pound force PULLS on the hands at such an angle that, if at say a 45 degree club plane angle at impact, 70 pounds are pulling you horizontally OVER the ball, and 70 pounds are going vertically downward, and increasing your 'apparent' weight.

BUT, since the horizontal component is acting back up the arms, into the shoulders, and causing an additional force related problem, a torque that has to be resisted by the muscles in your torso, holding you in the bent over, impact position. So the REACTION force you are looking for will be the feet pushing both vertically and horizontally on the ground, but there will be internal reactions to the torques mentioned above, too.

And that is just 1 of the 4 centripetal forces acting at impact. The 'short-cut' I used was to add the 4 force vectors in 3D during 5 points in the swing to get a feel how the body is being pushed and pulled during the down swing.

I did not make this complicated on purpose, it just is a very complicated 'kinetic' set of conditions and the reason we need the REAL SCIENTISTS and their computer programs to focus on it, and hopefully soon.

Thanks for asking, and doing your homework too.

Regards,
art

Thank you art,

Just a thought, when I see a well balanced swing is it possible all the forces and torques acting on the body were taken care of and thats why the swing was balanced?

 

[art]

Thank you art,

Just a thought, when I see a well balanced swing is it possible all the forces and torques acting on the body were taken care of and thats why the swing was balanced?

YES, and that is my reason and passion for deploying BBKIB, and eventually, the rest of the dynamic balance and stability margin science

 

[ekennedy]

Just an observation...it would seem that as the forces increase approaching and after impact (100-150lb), the body braces itself and begins to pull back against that force, the shoulders have rotated to a position perpendicular to that force, and in the case of some of the longer hitters, the left shoulder has actually begun to back up. The more I view powerful golf swings, the more I see a constant tug-of-war.

 

[art]

Just an observation...it would seem that as the forces increase approaching and after impact (100-150lb), the body braces itself and begins to pull back against that force, the shoulders have rotated to a position perpendicular to that force, and in the case of some of the longer hitters, the left shoulder has actually begun to back up. The more I view powerful golf swings, the more I see a constant tug-of-war.

Dera ekennedy,

All GREAT observations that hopefully will lead to continued science-based assessments to further our search for 'golf truth'.

The real beauty to me, is the human bodies ability to cope with, and balance these forces while still producing mostly acceptable shots, knowing that there are a 'million' different ways to get from the top of the back swing to impact.

Regards,
art

 

[Virtuoso]

The shaft will come off of the head when the shaft becomes vertical. This happens under the left shoulder or slightly later for PGA Tour pros. And since their trail arms don't become fully extended until just after this vertical line-up, they are THROWING the head off of the shaft, not PULLING the shaft off the head.

A thought to reconcile pulling and throwing. If you had a length of chain a foot long and you were going to grap one end of it and throw it to home plate, are you "throwing" or pulling? Both perhaps?

 

[Bigwill]

If you think of pulling or throwing as being a function of the position of the arms/hands (IOW, left arm in a position to pull, right arm in a position to throw), then I suppose you'd want to use both (at the correct times and in the correct manner), or risk leaving something in the bag, wouldn't you?

 

[faux_maestro]

If you think of pulling or throwing as being a function of the position of the arms/hands (IOW, left arm in a position to pull, right arm in a position to throw), then I suppose you'd want to use both (at the correct times and in the correct manner), or risk leaving something in the bag, wouldn't you?

I believe this is the whole point of all of the "new release" thoughts. The proper forces applied at the proper time.