Release description

[Jared Willerson]

The inward pull is about forces being applied to the club and handle acceleration.

Todd likes hitting down and the dogma of the Machine. Good for Todd, I believe, like Kevin, that he should simply teach what he teaches.

I do know this, learning not to tug and release the club has made all the difference in my own "tournament" play.

 

[spktho]

Is this "release" all of you are writing about the straightening of the trail arm, the unhinging of the wrists, or both? Or is it something else?

I'd say it's both plus more. Basically not "holding on" to any angles, instead applying proper forces to enhance clubhead delivery.

 

[leon]

Is left hand, shoulder, coupling point moving up/in and right arm straightening past impact mutually exclusive? If not then what are we even arguing about?

 

[faux_maestro]

Just to be clear, is anybody seriously disputing that great ball-strikers keep the trail arm straightening past impact?

I'm not, but I thought this was about not pulling inward (your words)? The right arm can continue to straighten while pulling inward. It's about application of forces which, last time I checked, is not visible on video.

Is left hand, shoulder, coupling point moving up/in and right arm straightening past impact mutually exclusive? If not then what are we even arguing about?

It isn't mutually exclusive. I have no idea what the argument is all about.

 

[wulsy]

The bottom line is: you either get this idea or you don't. Todd doesn't. Kevin (+ others) does.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I think poor form can contribute but the "hit impulse" can still rear it's ugly head even if you know how to make a good golf action.

Case in point is a player making a practice swing with good form but that form disintegrates once a ball is in the way.Sure,some might argue that the practice swing is no good but that doesn't explain the differences in the two forms.Also,there is no way to prove the practice swing was no good but you can bet the real one will be most likely no good.

Clubface.

I'm simply saying that you can't pull your hand inward toward your core while also pushing the hand away from the core. Great ball-strikers continue pushing their hands away from their core past impact................just like in countless other sports.

You simply as wrong as you can possibly be. No biggie.

Just to be clear, is anybody seriously disputing that great ball-strikers keep the trail arm straightening past impact?

I disputing HOW.

Not in the Home Run Derby, they didn't. Of course, these pics were taken from video. And I think we all know what that means............................it didn't really happen.

If you can't see what is going on here.....

BRIAN MANZELLA: "...But Baseball hitters put some force across the shaft, right Doc?"

DR. STEVEN NESBIT: "No."

Does anybody notice how much the batter's shoulder and head are moving in the "normal" direction?

Exactly.

Its a simple "yes" or "no" question.

It is not.

Is this "release" all of you are writing about the straightening of the trail arm, the unhinging of the wrists, or both? Or is it something else?

Something else.

I thought your issue is the forces being put on the club?

Even if he doesn't know it is—it is.

The bottom line is: you either get this idea or you don't. Todd doesn't. Kevin (+ others) does.

Whew.

Well put.

 

[faux_maestro]

If I make a swing but stop at last parallel, then straighten my right arm and uncock my wrists, the club hits the ground at least a foot behind the ball. If my hands DON'T pull up/in how the hell could I hit the ball?

 

[drewyallop]

Not in the Home Run Derby, they didn't. Of course, these pics were taken from video. And I think we all know what that means............................it didn't really happen.

Thanks for the Pic Todd. No question that the arms are extending past impact as you suggest. And it appears that they were pulled in before and at impact. As bluebird suggests I think a going normal move is evident. Maybe the extension is a reaction to going normal. What do you think?

Drew

 

[coophitter]

Something else?

Clubface.


You simply as wrong as you can possibly be. No biggie.



I disputing HOW.



If you can't see what is going on here.....

BRIAN MANZELLA: "...But Baseball hitters put some force across the shaft, right Doc?"

DR. STEVEN NESBIT: "No."



Exactly.



It is not.



Something else.



Even if he doesn't know it is—it is.



Whew.

Well put.

Please let me know what the "something else" is and whether it includes or excludes the right arm straightening and the wrists unhinging.

 

[faux_maestro]

Please let me know what the "something else" is and whether it includes or excludes the right arm straightening and the wrists unhinging.

The "release" has to do with the path the hands take from the top, where/when forces are applied to the club, and a whole host of things regarding wrist cock. Check out this thread: http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/15964-release-w-brian-manzella-michael-jacobs.html and this one:http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfing-discussions/17245-xyz-axes-what-contributes-most-clubhead-speed-now-w-p5-video.html it might be "clear as mud" for a while but there is a lot of info there.

 

[Todd Dugan]

The distance from the hands to a point between the shoulders INCREASES past impact for great ball-strikers. Its a fact. Check with your scientists. That is all.

 

[faux_maestro]

The distance from the hands to a point between the shoulders INCREASES past impact for great ball-strikers. Its a fact. Check with your scientists. That is all.

Your statement has nothing to do with where the forces are directed. Are you interested in answering my question?

 

[Kevin Shields]

The distance from the hands to a point between the shoulders INCREASES past impact for great ball-strikers. Its a fact. Check with your scientists. That is all.

So what?

 

[Brian Manzella]

The distance from the hands to a point between the shoulders INCREASES past impact for great ball-strikers. Its a fact. Check with your scientists. That is all.

Your statement has nothing to do with where the forces are directed. Are you interested in answering my question?

So what?

Trying to MAKE someTHING happen, that should HAPPEN because SOMETHING ELSE was done besides the THING, probably is not a good idea, no?

 

[hp12c]

Trying to MAKE someTHING happen, that should HAPPEN because SOMETHING ELSE was done besides the THING, probably is not a good idea, no?

I cant wrap my little brain around this one Bmanz. Ive read it over and over.

 

[faux_maestro]

I cant wrap my little brain around this one Bmanz. Ive read it over and over.

I think what he's getting at is that just because something is measurably happening doesn't mean that you are actively trying to make that happen, but it is a result of something else happening. An example of this is: "The distance from the hands to a point between the shoulders INCREASES past impact", not because the golfer is actively trying to increase that distance but because the forces applied by the golfer on the club and the forces applied by the club on the golfer is pulling the hands away from the shoulders. Brian: how'd I do?

 

[hp12c]

I think what he's getting at is that just because something is measurably happening doesn't mean that you are actively trying to make that happen, but it is a result of something else happening. An example of this is: "The distance from the hands to a point between the shoulders INCREASES past impact", not because the golfer is actively trying to increase that distance but because the forces applied by the golfer on the club and the forces applied by the club on the golfer is pulling the hands away from the shoulders. Brian: how'd I do?

Ok I get it, but then we can get into what is the golfer really doing or not and what is happening because of something else happening or not, can go around and around with something like that u know what I mean.

 

[dschultz6072]

Is it like holding a rope in a tug o war? You are pulling inward but your arms are stretched outward because someone is pulling on the other end?

 

[bluebird]

My before and after would go like this;

Brace everything rearwards for a lunge forwards. results being a forward leaning spline, ending with a weak wipe/cut across the ball.

Brace everything forwards for a reaction in the backwards,upwards direction, named "normal to the arc", necessary because of all the force of the clubhead was produced earlier in the swing. Do the hands go forwards as claimed, yes faster than ever, but i'am pulling in the opposite direction as much as I can. No doubt the clubhead speed is faster and more stable too.

So trying to drive the hands forwards was actually really bad and opposite of what was really needed, for myself.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Your statement has nothing to do with where the forces are directed. Are you interested in answering my question?

I've never questioned any findings of force measurement. Never mentioned it. I'm not stupid enough to question the measurements of scientists. My issue is with how those findings have been applied. It has been suggested here that the golfer should try to pull the hands inward toward the body around impact. But the fact is that the hands of great strikers move away from the body past impact. I'd just like to see Brian clairfy this conflict once-and-for-all.