Release description

[ej20]

I don't think focussing on any kind of release is a good thing as the hit impulse will rear it's ugly head and lead to poor extension in the followthrough.

Think about getting good extension of both arms in the follow through.Some guys are going to have a snap looking release and some are going to have a sweepish looking release.As long as you focus on getting good extension in the followthrough(not impact),you are going to maximize your chance of hitting the ball before the ground.

 

[birly-shirly]

Yea, that's it. What does he owe you for?

If you read one of his books, you'll know. I was an impressionable teenager, and to my great detriment, I read them both...

 

[dschultz6072]

Sounds like good reads. I'm guessing very "detailed".

 

[birly-shirly]

Proceed at risk, David.

Blake reckoned 'To understand golf you need the kind of mind which is good at mathematics and physics.'

If you think that this sort of approach is going to help you learn a motor skill - then dive right in. But this seems completely opposite to what you're doing with a Swingrite.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I guess you could throw the head off the shaft or you could pull the shaft out of the head.

You are correct, sir.

Can you do both at the same time? Or maybe both at different times in the same swing?

I vote for the latter.

I don't think focussing on any kind of release is a good thing as the hit impulse will rear it's ugly head and lead to poor extension in the followthrough.

Think about getting good extension of both arms in the follow through.Some guys are going to have a snap looking release and some are going to have a sweepish looking release.As long as you focus on getting good extension in the followthrough(not impact),you are going to maximize your chance of hitting the ball before the ground.

Opinion. Opinion. Fact. Opinion.

 

[Todd Dugan]

The shaft will come off of the head when the shaft becomes vertical. This happens under the left shoulder or slightly later for PGA Tour pros. And since their trail arms don't become fully extended until just after this vertical line-up, they are THROWING the head off of the shaft, not PULLING the shaft off the head.

 

[Virtuoso]

The shaft will come off of the head when the shaft becomes vertical. This happens under the left shoulder or slightly later for PGA Tour pros. And since their trail arms don't become fully extended until just after this vertical line-up, they are THROWING the head off of the shaft, not PULLING the shaft off the head.

I'm all for throwing while pulling.

 

[ej20]

You are correct, sir.



I vote for the latter.



Opinion. Opinion. Fact. Opinion.

Yes,it is only an opinion but one that is based on the observation of pro players(the vast majority of whom have great extensions),the teachings of PGA professionals(not everything they teach is rubbish) and my own personal experience.If I start hitting them a bit heavy,I know I am falling back into the hit impulse and focussing on better extension in the thru swing corrects thats immediately and takes away my ball boundeness.Trying to "hold" an angle or releasing a certain way to a particular "aiming" point doesn't work for me.

 

[faux_maestro]

Brian: Throw then pull? Or is it more complex?

 

[johnnymarlboro]

The shaft will come off of the head when the shaft becomes vertical. This happens under the left shoulder or slightly later for PGA Tour pros. And since their trail arms don't become fully extended until just after this vertical line-up, they are THROWING the head off of the shaft, not PULLING the shaft off the head.

I am not an elite player, but self taught, and good enough to break 80. When I want to hit it as high as possible I FEEL like i'm trying to throw the head off the shaft either at or just behind the ball (depending on the lie), and before impact I feel like I'm trying to pull the shaft off the head to hit the ball with the minimum necessary shaft lean to expose the sweet spot and just brush the grass. When I have a bad lie, need to really hit down on it, or just want to hit it lower I FEEL the same action, throwing then pulling, it's just happening later and more under the left shoulder like you said.

I'm sure different folks are going to have different FEEL's. But since finding this feel, my game has improved dramatically. I've already accomplished the goals I set for this season, and it's only half over.

 

[art]

Not sure there's a better one than this...................."Throw the clubhead off the shaft at the left foot."

Dear Todd,

At this point of my replying, there have been 27 other replies all, or most of which IMO, come from very accomplished golfers.

I am, and I feel many reviewing these informative blogs, by published statistics, have double digit handicaps, which from my own personal experience doesn't allow, or I have not yet been able to 'time' ANY body or arm move PRECISELY, during the explosive 0.250 to 0.300 second downswing.

Since most of the 'release' movements such as this result in varying DYNAMIC characteristics of the angles and angular rates of the wrists, the only fair way to test the ABILITY AND MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY THE REPEATABILITY OF TIMING a move such as this for me was on the AMM 12 sensor system at the Titleist Performance Institute (TPI) in 2008. Even with a plus handicap professional teacher being tested, any deviation from his 'grooved' natural swing, in an attempt to VARY, in our case the TIMING of the wrists contribution to club head speed, resulted in MAJOR changes in ball flight characteristics, hitting onto the TPI range.

Sorry, I was not smart enough at the time to record the differences in wrist angle and wrist angular velocities for these different attempts, but IMO, since reviewing the work reported on this site regarding 'The Release', and comments since, it is CLEARLY a complicated, and much more interesting to me a MAJOR DYNAMIC event IMO, warranting more study.

Fortunately, Michael Jacobs now has an AMM 8 sensor system, and if requested by YOU, his close friends, could provide the "Wrist Link Interaction" results from golfers of elite, and average capabilities, documenting how they are able OVER 10 SWINGS (for statistically significant reasons) to 'TIME' REPEATABLY, this final downswing event.

My bet is that the dispersion in ball flight characteristics will be unacceptable without lengthy and difficult 'habit changing' commitments.

I base this on my understanding of the limits of human body 'dynamic control' during such a short time interval of the downswing, BUT I SURE WOULD LIKE TO SEE FOCUSED TEST RESULTS in 2012, WHICH I UNFORTUNATELY in 2008 didn't have the foresite to record.

 

[gailfcno]

Well....

I can get the head to come off two ways.....

Heat gun, hacksaw?

 

[curtisj76]

What's a cheaper version of the swingrite?

 

[dschultz6072]

Proceed at risk, David.

Blake reckoned 'To understand golf you need the kind of mind which is good at mathematics and physics.'

If you think that this sort of approach is going to help you learn a motor skill - then dive right in. But this seems completely opposite to what you're doing with a Swingrite.

I wasn't serious at all. Golf books are horrible.

What's a cheaper version of the swingrite?

One from eBay.

 

[Todd Dugan]

Dear Todd,

At this point of my replying, there have been 27 other replies all, or most of which IMO, come from very accomplished golfers.

I am, and I feel many reviewing these informative blogs, by published statistics, have double digit handicaps, which from my own personal experience doesn't allow, or I have not yet been able to 'time' ANY body or arm move PRECISELY, during the explosive 0.250 to 0.300 second downswing.

Since most of the 'release' movements such as this result in varying DYNAMIC characteristics of the angles and angular rates of the wrists, the only fair way to test the ABILITY AND MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY THE REPEATABILITY OF TIMING a move such as this for me was on the AMM 12 sensor system at the Titleist Performance Institute (TPI) in 2008. Even with a plus handicap professional teacher being tested, any deviation from his 'grooved' natural swing, in an attempt to VARY, in our case the TIMING of the wrists contribution to club head speed, resulted in MAJOR changes in ball flight characteristics, hitting onto the TPI range.

Sorry, I was not smart enough at the time to record the differences in wrist angle and wrist angular velocities for these different attempts, but IMO, since reviewing the work reported on this site regarding 'The Release', and comments since, it is CLEARLY a complicated, and much more interesting to me a MAJOR DYNAMIC event IMO, warranting more study.

Fortunately, Michael Jacobs now has an AMM 8 sensor system, and if requested by YOU, his close friends, could provide the "Wrist Link Interaction" results from golfers of elite, and average capabilities, documenting how they are able OVER 10 SWINGS (for statistically significant reasons) to 'TIME' REPEATABLY, this final downswing event.

My bet is that the dispersion in ball flight characteristics will be unacceptable without lengthy and difficult 'habit changing' commitments.

I base this on my understanding of the limits of human body 'dynamic control' during such a short time interval of the downswing, BUT I SURE WOULD LIKE TO SEE FOCUSED TEST RESULTS in 2012, WHICH I UNFORTUNATELY in 2008 didn't have the foresite to record.

Highly skilled players routinely vary release timing to alter trajectory, earlier for higher, later for lower. A "flipper" is one who consistently releases the shaft to vertical too close to the ball, preventing the forward swing bottom required for "pure" impacts from the turf. For the flipper, rather than hurting performance, altering release timing is mandatory for improved performance.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The shaft will come off of the head when the shaft becomes vertical. This happens under the left shoulder or slightly later for PGA Tour pros. And since their trail arms don't become fully extended until just after this vertical line-up, they are THROWING the head off of the shaft, not PULLING the shaft off the head.

No.

So much opinion.....

I'm all for throwing while pulling.

If you can get it done.

....the hit impulse....

Rubbish.

.
Trying to "hold" an angle or releasing a certain way to a particular "aiming" point doesn't work for me.

It shouldn't.

Brian: Throw then pull? Or is it more complex?

More complex.

I am, and I feel many reviewing these informative blogs, by published statistics, have double digit handicaps, which from my own personal experience doesn't allow, or I have not yet been able to 'time' ANY body or arm move PRECISELY, during the explosive 0.250 to 0.300 second downswing.

Since most of the 'release' movements such as this result in varying DYNAMIC characteristics of the angles and angular rates of the wrists, the only fair way to test the ABILITY AND MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY THE REPEATABILITY OF TIMING a move such as this for me was on the AMM 12 sensor system at the Titleist Performance Institute (TPI) in 2008. Even with a plus handicap professional teacher being tested, any deviation from his 'grooved' natural swing, in an attempt to VARY, in our case the TIMING of the wrists contribution to club head speed, resulted in MAJOR changes in ball flight characteristics, hitting onto the TPI range.

Sorry, I was not smart enough at the time to record the differences in wrist angle and wrist angular velocities for these different attempts, but IMO, since reviewing the work reported on this site regarding 'The Release', and comments since, it is CLEARLY a complicated, and much more interesting to me a MAJOR DYNAMIC event IMO, warranting more study.

Fortunately, Michael Jacobs now has an AMM 8 sensor system, and if requested by YOU, his close friends, could provide the "Wrist Link Interaction" results from golfers of elite, and average capabilities, documenting how they are able OVER 10 SWINGS (for statistically significant reasons) to 'TIME' REPEATABLY, this final downswing event.

My bet is that the dispersion in ball flight characteristics will be unacceptable without lengthy and difficult 'habit changing' commitments.

I base this on my understanding of the limits of human body 'dynamic control' during such a short time interval of the downswing, BUT I SURE WOULD LIKE TO SEE FOCUSED TEST RESULTS in 2012, WHICH I UNFORTUNATELY in 2008 didn't have the foresite to record.

I agree, but.....

You can absolutely train a different release.

I've been doing it for 30 years.

Heat gun, hacksaw?

Katrina Water worked well as well.

Highly skilled players routinely vary release timing to alter trajectory, earlier for higher, later for lower. A "flipper" is one who consistently releases the shaft to vertical too close to the ball, preventing the forward swing bottom required for "pure" impacts from the turf. For the flipper, rather than hurting performance, altering release timing is mandatory for improved performance.

I almost agree with this 100%

 

[ej20]

Brian,I realize sports psychology probably doesn't qualify as science but quite a few sports psychologists do recognise the "hit impulse" phenomenon as legitimate and try to come up with ways to overcome it.They say it is quite difficult to overcome especially when playing an actual round of golf.

I believe this is one of the main reasons why golf is so difficult.

However,I value your take on it and would love to hear why you disagree with it.

 

[dschultz6072]

Is anyone who plays well really not trying to hit the ball hard? I would think the "hit impulse" is really something more along the lines of nerves and steering, screwing up the intent. Getting out of rhythm, I guess you'd say.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I think the hit impulse is different by ability, when i want to hit the ball hard I'm not trying to literally hit it harder i am just trying to create more clubhead speed; a lot of amateurs literally just try to muscle it and don't necessarily know how to create a few extra mph when/if needed.

 

[Todd Dugan]

For the record, I don't teach "opinion", only proven fact. FACT: 100% of the top 100 players in the world do not release the shaft to vertical before the left shoulder for full-power swings. FACT: the same group keeps the trail arm extending past impact. In light of this fact, why do so many insist its a good idea to pull the hands inward at impact. Only in golf instruction can people become so confused to believe its possible to pull your hand inward while simultaneously extending it outward. To quote Jim McClean, "Don't tell me, show me". As in show me a TOP 100 player who violates the 2 facts that I have presented. Oh yeah, that's right, "video lies"...........that is................when it doesn't support your opinion.