Right Wrist Cock Doesn't Really Exist

[Ringer]

I believe it does because it's quite clearly shown in these two photo's of your's truely... and I can produce the same angles for many professionals on tour.

The angle's measured are between the topline of the forearms and the shaft of the club. This illustrates the hinging motion commonly refered to as "Cocking".

Here is the amount my right wrist bends..

It appears my right wrist actually straightens out in this case by 10 degree's.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Ringer....i think this is all merely a terminology problem.

Go look at the pictures of brian demonstrating how people c0ck both wrists and should only be c0cking the left and bending the right

 

[armourall]

Ringer,

Since you agree your Grip is Strong Double Action, do you also feel that Right Wrist Cock exists in a Strong Single Action Grip?

 

[6bee1dee]

The reason I went thru the trouble of posting these pictures of you was to refute you original claims of:
“my right wrist only bends after impact” and then your claim that
“my right wrist already bent at set up.”

I showed you that you have a bent right wrist before impact. You then put a spin on that.

I showed you did not have a bent wrist at set up. You claimed that it is BENT, that is the word you used, not c0cked at set up. It is not bent is it?

Bend is a Horizontal position. You have a c0cked Perpendicular position of the right hand. And this just isn’t a terminology issue, you knew what we were referring to when it is said to bend, being bent and not c0cked.

You can c0ck your right wrist if you like, it is not the best right wrist position to be in. It is a much weaker strut of the driving right arm. Maybe that is why you have to flight your forearms to stay on plane. Just a thought about that. I love the new spin you on the pictures. I like how you covered up your wrists with graphics. I can't see how you get an angle from a straight unlevel right wrist up along your forearm on pic 4, that's the one on the left, second row. I can see an angle formed from a straight right hand/arm and the shaft.

BTW, Chuck loves a right bent wrist and a straight left wrist at set up. A pure hitters address position. That was your orignal claim. You don’t have that.

Back to your handicap, you don’t keep a GHIN do you? How do you compete in tournaments without one?

Sorry to hear that your car is out of commission. Package student lessons that require more money up front might help.

 

[6bee1dee]

I'm sorry, I was just looking at pictures at Redgoat's site and see very little setups with such a c0ck of the right wrist. I then went back to look at the pictures I made of you without the covering lines and fail to see why the red lines are drawn in such manner. In the first pic, why is the red line not following the line of your forearm? What angle are you showing in that picture, shaft to back of shoulder blade? In my pic, your forearm runs straight up to the bottom of your neck, top of shoulders. Those lines fail to show BEND.
Next to last point. a wrist C0CK is NOT a hinge action. You keep refering to c0cking as a hinge action. Not even close to understand hinging. Some have tried to enlighten you, but...
last point- Your club lies may be to flat.

 

[MizunoJoe]

First, you are measuring wrist "bend" and not wrist "cock" and secondly, some players DO, in fact, cock the right wrist, but it doesn't appear from the photos that you're one of them.

 

[dclaryjr]

quote:Back to your handicap, you don’t keep a GHIN do you? How do you compete in tournaments without one?

Just a note--I have a legitimate USGA index but my handicap service does not subscribe to GHIN.

 

[glfnaz]

Arizona Golf Assoc does not use GHIN.
We have been a test market for a different system.
Forget the name, but it is not GHIN

 

[Ringer]

You don't need a handicap to compete in professional events.

Perhaps there is a terminology difference that I don't understand. I'm completely willing to accept that. I think we all agree that there are only TWO ways that the wrist hinges. If one hold their arm out in front of them, a cocking motion would make the hand go up and down, while a bending motion would make it go side to side.

 

[Ringer]

quote:Originally posted by armourall

Ringer,

Since you agree your Grip is Strong Double Action, do you also feel that Right Wrist Cock exists in a Strong Single Action Grip?

Yes. I believe that in both cases the right forearm rotates slightly as well as cocks to corelate with the motion of the left hand. The amount of bend in the right rist is to accommodate the position of the right arm in the backswing. The elbows would be a good place to start. The closer the elbows are at the top of the backswing, the less bend there will be of the right wrist. There is also an issue of height. The further around your body you swing the club, again the more the wrist bends. The steeper the angle, the less angle is necessary.

 

[Ringer]

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

The reason I went thru the trouble of posting these pictures of you was to refute you original claims of:
“my right wrist only bends after impact” and then your claim that
“my right wrist already bent at set up.”

When did I say that my right wrist only bends AFTER impact? I said INTO impact, but not AFTER.

I'm not sure of the context I would have said "already bent at setup" either.

quote:
I showed you that you have a bent right wrist before impact. You then put a spin on that.

I agree that it does in fact bend before impact. I would prefer that it doesn't.

quote:
I showed you did not have a bent wrist at set up. You claimed that it is BENT, that is the word you used, not c0cked at set up. It is not bent is it?

It quite clearly is bent at setup and not cocked. In the first set of pictures, the amount of cocking is measured. In the second, I show bend.

quote:
Bend is a Horizontal position. You have a c0cked Perpendicular position of the right hand. And this just isn’t a terminology issue, you knew what we were referring to when it is said to bend, being bent and not c0cked.

I have no idea what the heck you're talking about.

quote:
You can c0ck your right wrist if you like, it is not the best right wrist position to be in. It is a much weaker strut of the driving right arm. Maybe that is why you have to flight your forearms to stay on plane. Just a thought about that. I love the new spin you on the pictures. I like how you covered up your wrists with graphics. I can't see how you get an angle from a straight unlevel right wrist up along your forearm on pic 4, that's the one on the left, second row. I can see an angle formed from a straight right hand/arm and the shaft.

This is so ludicrous it's not even funny. Now I'm attempting to decieve you. Ok... fine. You just keep believing that. I think you were on that path long ago.

quote:
BTW, Chuck loves a right bent wrist and a straight left wrist at set up. A pure hitters address position. That was your orignal claim. You don’t have that.

Either you are not looking at the same pictures I posted or you are not using the terms in the same manner I am.

quote:
Back to your handicap, you don’t keep a GHIN do you? How do you compete in tournaments without one?

Sorry to hear that your car is out of commission. Package student lessons that require more money up front might help.

The golf season hasn't yet started. Most places are still in the overseeding process including the course that I teach at. I also have other responsibilities to my other two jobs which eat up a lot of my time. Wish I could be on the course right now helping students, but there aren't many here yet, and I have to make money by other means right now.

 

[Ringer]

quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee

I'm sorry, I was just looking at pictures at Redgoat's site and see very little setups with such a c0ck of the right wrist. I then went back to look at the pictures I made of you without the covering lines and fail to see why the red lines are drawn in such manner. In the first pic, why is the red line not following the line of your forearm? What angle are you showing in that picture, shaft to back of shoulder blade? In my pic, your forearm runs straight up to the bottom of your neck, top of shoulders. Those lines fail to show BEND.
Next to last point. a wrist C0CK is NOT a hinge action. You keep refering to c0cking as a hinge action. Not even close to understand hinging. Some have tried to enlighten you, but...
last point- Your club lies may be to flat.

The red line quite clearly does go along the line of my RIGHT forearm.. not my left.

 

[Ringer]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

First, you are measuring wrist "bend" and not wrist "cock" and secondly, some players DO, in fact, cock the right wrist, but it doesn't appear from the photos that you're one of them.

Are you saying that the term "bend" is not what I am measuring in the second set of photo's? Perhaps as was suggested I am not using the same term that you are all used to.

 

[MizunoJoe]

Ringer,

You ARE correctly measuring the "bend" in the 2nd set of photos. However in the 2nd pic of the 1st set, which attempts to measure the "cock" of the right wrist, the measurement isn't in the correct plane, which should be perpendicular to the plane of the right wrist bend. You are measuring it in the plane of the photo, which makes it appear to be cocked. What you are seeing as "cocking" from this perspective, is actually "bending". To get the correct camera angle you have to point the camera at the inside of the right forearm.

 

[matt]

quote:Originally posted by Ringer

You don't need a handicap to compete in professional events.

Perhaps there is a terminology difference that I don't understand. I'm completely willing to accept that. I think we all agree that there are only TWO ways that the wrist hinges. If one hold their arm out in front of them, a cocking motion would make the hand go up and down, while a bending motion would make it go side to side.

Cock and bend. In TGM, it's called "Cocking" and "Bending." All this has NOTHING to do with Hinging per the book.

 

[4D1]

What angle would normally be created between the shaft and the right forearm by a perfectly flat, vertical and level right wrist? If you fully uncocked your right wrist, staying flat and vertical, what would that angle be? If you fully cocked your right wrist staying flat and vertical, what would that angle be? What about bent, vertical and level? Obviously, we all have different flexibilities, but use norms. I am trying to ascertain the significance of Ringer's angles depicted above.

 

[DDL]

quote:Originally posted by matt

quote:

Cock and bend. In TGM, it's called "Cocking" and "Bending." All this has NOTHING to do with Hinging per the book.

As I understand it, hinge action is all about the left hand motion through impact, not the wrists.

 

[matt]

quote:Originally posted by DDL

quote:Originally posted by matt

Cock and bend. In TGM, it's called "Cocking" and "Bending." All this has NOTHING to do with Hinging per the book.

As I understand it, hinge action is all about the left hand motion through impact, not the wrists.

The word Hinge in the book has a very different application than that of the mainstream. Hinging has NOTHING to do with wrist cock or anything like that. The terminology just makes everything easily to understand and refer to. Hinging = x, cock = y, bend = z. No confusion.

 

[Ringer]

hinge joint - a joint, for example, a knee or elbow joint, that allows movement in only one plane.

Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2003. © 1993-2002 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


I think the wrist quite clearly hinges in two planes.

 

[rwh]

quote:Originally posted by Ringer


Perhaps there is a terminology difference that I don't understand. I'm completely willing to accept that. I think we all agree that there are only TWO ways that the wrist hinges. If one hold their arm out in front of them, a cocking motion would make the hand go up and down, while a bending motion would make it go side to side.

You are correct, sir. In TGM, there are three Horizontal ("side to side) Wrist Conditions: Flat; Bent (left hand bending to the left, right hand bending to the right); ; and, Arched (left hand bending to the right, right hand bending to the left). There are three Vertical ("up and down") Wrist Conditions: Level; Cocked (the "up" direction); Uncocked (the "down" direction).