Rules talk

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birly-shirly

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conkanen said:
That's lost ball city on courses I play. In those instances, I would to be able to have a chip out or an unplayable.
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Agree - but I see it more as a problem with the course set up than with the rules on stroke and distance. Same with OOB. I'm not a fan of internal OOB - but if you spray your ball off the property then I don't have a problem with being penalised stroke and distance.

BTW - if this discussion doesn't bring Dariusz back to the forum as an active participant, nothing will.
 
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dbl

New
Petterson had a discussion after the shot while walking with the RO which the cameras picked up, and the discussion was about what he could touch, and the RO seemed to indicate he had told him grass and certain things he could do...so I think the RO told him ahead of time what he could do.

In his interview, Petterson said this:
ASAP Sports Transcripts - Golf - 2012 - PGA CHAMPIONSHIP - August 12 - Carl Pettersson
I knew I could touch the grass. I just didn't think about the leaves. I didn't think twice about it when I hit the shot. Rules official came to me and just one of those, you know, one of those bad rules in golf. Because I didn't rest the club down. If you're in a hazard, you can actually touch the grass. You just can't put any weight on it.
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I couldn't see enough detail on the grounding/"resting"....it's conceivable the club could sink quite a ways down and still not have the grass support the club's weight.
 
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fronesis

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dbl said:
Petterson had a discussion after the shot while walking with the RO which the cameras picked up, and the discussion was about what he could touch, and the RO seemed to indicate he had told him grass and certain things he could do...so I think the RO told him ahead of time what he could do.

In his interview, Petterson said this:
ASAP Sports Transcripts - Golf - 2012 - PGA CHAMPIONSHIP - August 12 - Carl Pettersson


I couldn't see enough detail on the grounding/"resting"....it's conceivable the club could sink quite a ways down and still not have the grass support the club's weight.
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Yes, you are completely correct. The RO did, in fact, tell him it was fine to touch the grass, and I understand that is also what the rulebook says.

I guess I'm making two distinct, but related comments:

1. To my eye, it looked like he clearly just soled his club all the way (and not just lightly brushed the grass).
2. When I was taught the rules of golf, and especially the following of those rules in competition, I learned to never get the sole of my club anywhere near the ground in a hazard. So it seems to me that our interpretation of the rules (and how we follow them) has changed in subtle and important ways, when someone near the lead on the final day of a major hits the ball in a hazard and then, following advice from an on-course official, actually intentionally sets his club down behind the ball. I was shocked that he put his club that far down on the ground. But I am also shocked when Kenny Perry and other golfers seem to be clearly improving their lie (according to my understanding of the rules) by repeatedly soling their club behind the ball in thick rough. I have clear memories from the past of pros hitting out of hazards with thick grass, and keeping their clubhead WAY above the ground – making sure not to touch or move anything. I understand taht the rules state it's ok to "brush the grass" but the approach to soling the club has changed, it seems to me.
 
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ms1170

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jimmyt said:
I don't think you should be penalized for hitting a long straight drive down the middle of the fairway only
to end up in a divot or sand filled divot. To me one of the most unfair rules in the book.
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There are always unintended consequences when you make or change a rule. What might happen in this case, is people stop replacing divots if they know it can't hurt a fellow competitor.
 
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ms1170

New
Jared Willerson said:
I personally think out of bounds should be permanently removed. No stroke and distance penalties.
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Do you want this for lost ball as well? How would you like this rule to work? Do you replay from original shot or play it like Lateral Water Hazard? Where is point of entry for a Lost Ball going to be? If you don't have the same penalty for lost ball and out of bounds, you're going to have a big problem.
 
jimmyt

jimmyt

New
ms1170 said:
There are always unintended consequences when you make or change a rule. What might happen in this case, is people stop replacing divots if they know it can't hurt a fellow competitor.
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At many a local track divots are not replaced anyway. It's for that very reason one should not be penalized for hitting a ball in the fairway......wher is my advantage for hitting a ball perfectly striaght and in play.........
 
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dbl

New
Thanks Fronesis - sounds like credible observations, past and present. Clearly Petterson did not take a conservative stance to keeping that club far away from the ground. That said, the loose leaf added to the whole mixture. He'd have had to hover far above both grass and leaf to have been completely safe. If only the RO had said, you can have the club lightly press the grass, but be sure not to dislodge that leaf in your backswing....:)
 
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bgoodyear

New
No white stakes. Instead play them as red stakes unless they are off the course boundary in which case its played like a nature protected area where you aren't allowed to walk much less play. Stroke, drop, and move on.

Way too often on the local munis somebody will hit a ball that looks to be in play but ends up OOB. On a busy muni, going back to the tee to rehit while the group behind you fumes is non-optional.

Also why is a ball hit a few degree offline that you crushed 280 and trickles into OOB a worse shot than swinging and missing completely?
 
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ms1170

New
bgoodyear said:
No white stakes. Instead play them as red stakes unless they are off the course boundary in which case its played like a nature protected area where you aren't allowed to walk much less play. Stroke, drop, and move on.

Way too often on the local munis somebody will hit a ball that looks to be in play but ends up OOB. On a busy muni, going back to the tee to rehit while the group behind you fumes is non-optional.

Also why is a ball hit a few degree offline that you crushed 280 and trickles into OOB a worse shot than swinging and missing completely?
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These whiffers have found a loophole. The next time I'm in a match and my opponent hits it OB, I may whiff, so that I'll still have the advantage.
 
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birly-shirly

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I played with a guy last night who was using a GPS/yardage app on his smartphone. The app he was using had cost him nothing. But apparently if he wants electronic yardages in a club medal he has to buy a dedicated unit that won't do anything else.

OK - you can argue that he needed the phone anyway and paid nothing for the app, so he's no worse off - but this still strikes me as fundamentally regressive. I think electronic yardages speed up play - and making that technology cheap and accessible is a good thing.

Tour pros have caddies and can spend a week charting the course - so i don't buy the "judgement is part of the game" argument here. I hardly think we're dumbing down the game if we let recreational players use mapping technology.

I agree that it could do bad things to the pace of play if everyone starts consulting digital clinometers on the green, but if we can trust golfers not to improve their lie in the rough, then I think we can trust them to only use the yardage function in a smartphone app and to switch off any gradient or elevation tools for competitions.
 
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dbl

New
The issue about smart phone yardage apps, is that the smartphone can usually give other forbidden info, notably compass directions. Iphone has a compass app built in.
 
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birly-shirly

New
Sure - but either allow people to access that information, or forbid it - and trust people not to break the rule.

IMO, trusting the individual golfer to abide by the rules without a referee constantly looking over his shoulder is much more a fundamental part of the game than trying to eyeball the elevation of a green, or guessing true north from observing migrating birds.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
I've logged here for the 1st time since I've quitted...answered mails, read something on the forum, blah blah blah -- you fade, unfortunately.

This discussion is pathethic. American pussies wanting to have a one stroke penalty for spreading drives. LOL. I label your scratch similar to our 10 HCP ROFL. When someone cannot drive, should use #3 wood; if not sufficient -- #4 hybrid; then #6 iron, ROFL.

You really want me to entertain you or to humiliate you ?

Cheers

P.S. Say hello to this moron who said I need your forum to promote myself; tell him that one of my YT vids make more than all from this forum. Have a nice day....:))))
 
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OLIVER1

New
Dariusz J. said:
I've logged here for the 1st time since I've quitted...answered mails, read something on the forum, blah blah blah -- you fade, unfortunately.

This discussion is pathethic. American pussies wanting to have a one stroke penalty for spreading drives. LOL. I label your scratch similar to our 10 HCP ROFL. When someone cannot drive, should use #3 wood; if not sufficient -- #4 hybrid; then #6 iron, ROFL.

You really want me to entertain you or to humiliate you ?

Cheers

P.S. Say hello to this moron who said I need your forum to promote myself; tell him that one of my YT vids make more than all from this forum. Have a nice day....:))))
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We really are gonna need a bigger boat...:)

Great to have you back, Dariusz
 
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