Sacrificing length for accuracy

[Dariusz J.]

No this is relevant, you became a "hobby" fitter from spending hours on Wishon's forum? Also, you don't necessarily needs a trackman as i didn't have access to one (still don't) but did use what was available back in the day at various fittings events with other professionals and i helped fit a lot of people using Vector & Zelocity, which before trackman became available, was generally the norm. I used real people with real equipment and machines spitting back data to me.




Not denying this, of course it will. But changing his equipment could significantly reduce his swing speed and resulting ball speed a lot more than he wants. Of course can go to heavier/stiffer shafts BUT that also radically changes the "feel" and launch conditions of that driver.



That is an option and requires time/money to go do that. All i'm saying is that a cheap/easy/simple way to give up a little distance is to shorten your driver; that's it.

Fair enough. I wish all discussion can arrive at such compromises. Thanks, Jim.

Cheers

 

[art]

No this is relevant, you became a "hobby" fitter from spending hours on Wishon's forum? Also, you don't necessarily needs a trackman as i didn't have access to one (still don't) but did use what was available back in the day at various fittings events with other professionals and i helped fit a lot of people using Vector & Zelocity, which before trackman became available, was generally the norm. I used real people with real equipment and machines spitting back data to me.




Not denying this, of course it will. But changing his equipment could significantly reduce his swing speed and resulting ball speed a lot more than he wants. Of course can go to heavier/stiffer shafts BUT that also radically changes the "feel" and launch conditions of that driver.



That is an option and requires time/money to go do that. All i'm saying is that a cheap/easy/simple way to give up a little distance is to shorten your driver; that's it.

Dear Jim,

I have very high regard for the quality of your posts, and want to provide what I believe, and have tested to be another reason a shorter club may produce a higher swing velocity AND more centered hits as noted by BALL velocity and of course, the 'Smash factor'.

Simply, as you probably guessed, IMO the answer is BETTER LOWER BODY DYNAMIC BALANCE AND STABILITY. This automatically happens as the body adjusts to the shorter length AND IMO, the closer the golfer stands to the ball. Even parts of an inch are sufficient, combining with the slightly reduced 'height' of the golfer to the ball with the shorter club. So being closer to the ball, with a lower stance, and the pelvis center of gravity further from the 'instantaneous center of pelvic-axis rotation, more dynamic stability is produced.

The next advantage after just a few swings, and the body FEELS this new balance, is that the antagonistic muscles that used to protect the longer shaft AND THE ASSOCIATED DYNAMIC INSTABILITIES WITHOUT THE BUMPY BACK, sometimes relax, and the golfer produces more useful torques for the distance producing elements, ie. torso, shoulder complexes and of course, the lead arm..

SO PLEASE JIM, GIVE 'BUMPY BACK, KEEP IT BACK' A TEST RUN ON TRACKMAN, and also talk to Brian, Jon Hardesty, Billy McKinney and Chris Como, who did give 'Bumpy' a fair test and realized up to 10% improvements in distance AND 40-50% reductions in one sigma dispersions.

All of us DEARLY NEED PEOPLE OF YOUR STATUS WITH THE GAME to develop an opinion regarding at least lower body dynamic stability, and the incredible POTENTIAL advantages of increasing it during the set-up and transition, if required based on the swing style.

Respectfully,
art

Finally, most of the 'Bumpy back' significant experiences can be found easily by a 'Google' search on "Bumpy Back vs Diagonal Stance"

 

[faux_maestro]

This seems like to me it would have to be from making better contact and thus having confidence to swing harder.

Have you confirmed that on a monitor? Generally in cases like yours, you "average ball speed" went up because the shorter driver has you contacting the sweetspot more often or better thus creating the extra distance. I wrote a long post on an old forum a long time ago that if you could increase your smash fact X that the gain in average ball speed makes up for an possibly could negate the drop off in swing speed. The downside would be you'd probably never hit it as far as some of the longest drives pre-short driver but your overall average distance would go up.

I have confirmed this on a monitor. I tried this because I was hitting my driver just awful and I hit a Callaway FT Tour at Golfsmith that was about 1 1/2" shorter than mine and I was just crushing it. I couldn't afford to buy it but I could cut my driver and add lead tape to get the swingweight up. I checked before and after and my swing speed went from 101-103ish to 104-105ish including one at 107. I forget the smash factor but it was way better too. The shorter club was just easier to control and I got into a better set-up and I could go on about how different my swing looks on video. I think I just can't control the longer club even if the swingweight is the same. I haven't been a good driver since I had a Taylormade 360 Ti, I don't know how long it was but I think it's close to what I have now.

A little info about me: 5'10" 225 with short-ish arms and legs.

P.S. Sorry for the thread jack.

 

[art]

Been a while since I was active here, but now I feel like I have a question I would like to ask that could perhaps yield some good discussion.

I played my home course today. Swing felt decent, most shots were, but my swing wasn't quite on. Some bad shots, many with the driver, led to some nasty stuff. The round ended up being a pretty bad one.

I am a 6"4 tall, big hitting guy. I average something like 280 yards with the driver, and hit one 330 yard beauty today. It's a lot of fun to do that, and it tends to make people jealous. However, I can't help but feel that almost hitting tour lengths is completely unnecessary when playing the men's tees on a normal course. I feel overpowered. And the problem is that I have to practice a lot for my game to be on, and when it's not it feels like the length hurts me. Because instead of just missing the fairway, the ball is in some really nasty lie, or gone.

So... I feel like I would be willing to sacrifice some of that length, to hit it maybe 250 yards instead, but a bit straighter, and not as far offline when my game is not on when I haven't practiced tons. I feel like hitting it a bit shorter would be easier to maintain, and it wouldn't hurt me a lot scoring-wise.

So, the question is, any good advice on building a shorter, but straighter hitting swing? Which moves are good, what's bad? I have a pretty big lagging clubhead takeaway in my swing. I have started to feel like that move is hurting me by making clubhead control worse. It feels a bit whimsy. This takeaway also takes me pretty far "underplane" in the backswing. I am starting to think it takes me to far underplane and that it would be more consistent to have an a bit steeper backswing without the LCT.

I also swing quite far. Many people would say I overswing. Would it be a good idea to shorten my swing a bit to around parallel with the driver instead of going past that? I remember BM once saying a backswing shouldn't be shortened for shortening's sake if it works. I however feel it doesn't quite work and that I could probably be more consistent with a swing that is a bit shorter.

I have all the instructional films from Bmanz if there's anything in there someone would like to point towards. I feel like going NHA lite could perhaps be a good idea.

So... any advice on how to build a swing with nothing more than decent length, but straight shots, that would probably be more easily maintainable than a long hitting swing? And... are my thoughts any good or am I 100% crazy?

Dear Olof,

STOP, YOU CAN HAVE YOUR CAKE (Distance), and EAT IT TOO (Accuracy) !!!!!

This string, like others ended abruptly without and comments about changes you made or tried.

I request you look at my response to Jim, late in this string regarding dynamic balance and its effect on club head velocity.

Then, please 'Google' "Bumpy Back vs Diagonal Stance", read it, and try the methodology paying particular attention to ADDING lower body dynamic stability and control BY BENDING YOUR KNEES AN INCH OR SO, DECREASING YOUR HEIGHT, BUT ONLY if the 'BBBKIB is not sufficient FOR THE ACCURACY CONTROL YOU NEED FOR YOUR DISTANCE.

Finally, PLEASE post your results on this string for continuity.

Respectfully and appreciatively,
art

 

[DCgolf]

First of all, Slowing your swing down is like dieting. You might do it for a little while, but not long. I think there are maybe 7/8 guys on the tour over 120 MPH, I don't think there are any in the accuracy leaders. Speed kills. But a 9 iron out of the rough is better than a 5 iron from the fairway. So you choose. Secondly before you do anything to your clubs, WHERE are you missing with high speed swing? It's still about impact and ball flight.

 

[Olof Karlson]

I've hardly had an time to play golf since I made this thread. I will try to understand the BBBKIB, since I don't think I quite have.