SAM PuttLab and Matt Kluck Pittsburgh

[Lindsey Newman]

After speaking with Kevin Shields about my poor putting he suggested I go to Pittsburgh and and meet with Matt Kluck. Matt gave Kevin a look earlier in the season and seemed to help.

I never put much thought into putting, I always figured some people got it and some people don't (that may be and I believe is still very much true). I mean really, just keep the face square go straight back and through and hope for the best right? Well Matt has a SAM PuttLab. I knew a little about it, but like trackman, in the right hands in can be devastating in it's effectiveness. Once we were underway, I was astonished at how bad my stroke was. I constantly hit the putts thin and on the toe. I really never hit it in the sweet spot and did not know it!

Anyway, the SAM PuttLab is legit, Matt gave me some insight into understanding the results and helped me to see the direction I needed to go. Matt knows his stuff and was great to work with. Thanks to Matt and to Kevin.

I don't know about everyone else, but I always looked at putting as fairly basic thing and if you make putts it's pretty much luck. I now know that there is a whole other place in golf to get lost. See you on the other side.

 

[softconsult]

"I don't know about everyone else, but I always looked at putting as fairly basic thing and if you make putts it's pretty much luck."

My initial reaction was, "You can't be serious." This is the skill that is widely known, and often cited as the single reason why the guy who putts the best that week has the best chance of winning. They work on putting all the time. Some luck involved, but you need some fundamentals to even have a fighting chance.

Then I thought about my playing partners this year in my bi-weekly golf league. Most of them have terrible putting skills. They have what they have and never, or so it seems, work on improvement. Few actually spend anytime reading the green. There are exceptions.

Take my car pooling friend. John has at least 10 putters and alternates between right handed and left handed.
Constantly tinkering, and having little success. However, he is at least trying.

Then there is our League President. Hal is 70 years old, and carries about a 2 handicap. Uses the Long Putter and
is deadly. Works on putting all the time.

There is guy named Jim. He is 75 years old, 11 handicap. On Monday we played a very nice Country Club
in my town. He shoots 75. The word from his group was that he just made almost every putt. I played with him
on Thursday. Public course, very hilly and tricky. He is still in the zone. Every putt, perfect speed. Banging them in hole after hole. Fun to watch. He shoots 72, and wins Low Gross. He has a very technically sound putting stroke.

So maybe I can understand someone concluding that putting by the general golfing public is mostly luck, but
good putting takes learning the fundamentals and hours practicing whatever approach you decide to work on.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

"I don't know about everyone else, but I always looked at putting as fairly basic thing and if you make putts it's pretty much luck."

My initial reaction was, "You can't be serious." This is the skill that is widely known, and often cited as the single reason why the guy who putts the best that week has the best chance of winning. They work on putting all the time. Some luck involved, but you need some fundamentals to even have a fighting chance.

Then I thought about my playing partners this year in my bi-weekly golf league. Most of them have terrible putting skills. They have what they have and never, or so it seems, work on improvement. Few actually spend anytime reading the green. There are exceptions.

Take my car pooling friend. John has at least 10 putters and alternates between right handed and left handed.
Constantly tinkering, and having little success. However, he is at least trying.

Then there is our League President. Hal is 70 years old, and carries about a 2 handicap. Uses the Long Putter and
is deadly. Works on putting all the time.

There is guy named Jim. He is 75 years old, 11 handicap. On Monday we played a very nice Country Club
in my town. He shoots 75. The word from his group was that he just made almost every putt. I played with him
on Thursday. Public course, very hilly and tricky. He is still in the zone. Every putt, perfect speed. Banging them in hole after hole. Fun to watch. He shoots 72, and wins Low Gross. He has a very technically sound putting stroke.

So maybe I can understand someone concluding that putting by the general golfing public is mostly luck, but
good putting takes learning the fundamentals and hours practicing whatever approach you decide to work on.

Steve,

You never fail to deliver.

The point of the post was to say how good the experience was working with Matt and how useful the SAM Puttlab is. You don't know much about my background as I do not know much about yours. I can assure you I understand how important putting is and have worked very hard on (maybe) wrong fundamentals.

Your eagerness to deliver a negative comment and offer nothing but a know-it-all stamp is remarkable.

 

[golfdad]

Hello Lindsey and the Board, i am a newbie and first post on this board (thanks for brian's approval).

i have been kinda lamenting that i wish on golf teaching boards there will be more putting related topics, so i am thrilled to see one!

anyway, relating to your experience, here is mine (well, my kid's).

about 2 weeks ago, we were at the pga facility in port st lucie and responding to a board advertising for a putting eval, we figured that since my kid is really a pretty bad putter, what was there to lose except money? trust me, the frustration of missing makeable putts is priceless

(i just goggled the sam puttlab and realized by look we had the same machine and session).

well, the experience was very eye-opening. that machine did something similar to what trackman is doing with the long game.

my kid was told to line up to something about 10 feet away and when all was ready, putt about 5 times, during which the machine recorded the data.

here is what it found, among things i can remember and understand:

1. all 5 times, she opened her putter a little at address.

2. all 5 times, she opened her putter a little at impact.

3. all 5 times, she hit different spots around the center of the putter face. never once right on, and never once close to another spot of the rest of the 5.

4. also some info on the putter path. suffices it to say, and now i am rather convinced, there is really no such a thing as straight back and through. her lines were ok. has more of a inside down the line look to it.

prior to this session, we could putt 24/7 and our naked eyes could never have picked up the open face at impact. chances are the ball would go right, and we would conclude that she pushed it to the right, blaming her path, when in fact it was the face angle. so this info is quite important for us to keep in mind during future practice. i think a similar session like this is also in order to follow up progress.

of note is that in that particular machine there are data on a lot of pga and lpga players. we saw the data on several. for instance, one player also does not hit on the center on the putter face, but she consistently hit on one particular spot, so the inter-spot variance is like zero, therefore the energy she delivers each time is consistent and reliable, even though not necessarily ideal. i think that is a big lesson for us,,,that for most of us amateurs this inter-shot variance is just too big,,,

 

[Jwat]

Lindsey,

Dont sweat Steve, he never offers anything to these threads worth reading. He is a master of all trades.

Last month, I too was on a Sam Puttlab, but in Dallas at the Hank Haney Center (only for a club fitting w/ cool clubs I swear).

Anyways, starting out on 8 ft putts not looking at the face aim on screen, I made 10 in a row. My overall rating was only a 69%, but my consistancy was 90%. My face at impact was 1.5deg closed and a path at 2.5deg right.

After they worked with me the next 10 putts I think I made maybe 5. But my overall rating had increased to a 77%, but my consistancy was at 80%. My face at impact was .7deg and path was 1.2deg to the right.

Anyways I really liked putting on it. Definitley worth the money. Did I necessarily make more putts? No, but probably after I practice the stroke they showed me in a couple of weeks I could be making the putts. I do agree that this is a great asset and you definitley need good instructor. From what I read, the sensors can just be slightly off and really throw off the numbers. So a good instructor is a must.

What were your numbers? Did you get the color printouts?

 

[softconsult]

Lindsey, you wrote what you wrote. I quoted you. Words have meaning.
What you said was really surprising to me. Yes, I know nothing about you
or your background. Doesn't matter. What I wrote was not personal.

Why do you have a problem with someone commenting on one small portion
of what you wrote? Are you really that sensitive?

 

[Lindsey Newman]

It great to see EXACTLY what happens in one's stroke. Like I said earlier, I was hitting the ball just slightly on the toe and could not feel it. Just that little bit makes a big difference and also to know why was a revelation as well. Kevin Shields and I have been playing golf together forever. Whether it was traveling on the mini's or casual practice rounds he would say "you never hit bad putts, but they never look like they were going to go in". Kevin obviously has a well trained eye, but even he had know idea what was wrong with my stroke. Once on the PuttLab and with Matt Kluck's trained eye, we found out where the problems are. There was no guessing which is always nice.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Lindsey, you wrote what you wrote. I quoted you. Words have meaning.
What you said was really surprising to me. Yes, I know nothing about you
or your background. Doesn't matter. What I wrote was not personal.

Why do you have a problem with someone commenting on one small portion
of what you wrote? Are you really that sensitive?

Just bring something to the table.

 

[softconsult]

My view of the table differs from yours. When I agree,
I say so. When I have questions, or disagree, I say so.
I am not Politically Correct. I spent years in management
being blunt, nicely blunt, but to the point. Not changing anytime
soon.

In the case of my response to one sentence of your post, I
would like you think of your reaction had Brian uttered his
classic, BALONEY, comment. Probably different, huh.

One of the things that constantly amazes me is how often posters
refuse to acknowledge the possibility that, just perhaps, what
was written in response to their post might have some merit.

So it's unlikely that I am changing my approach. I like it. You don't.
That's ok. I like hearing different viewpoints, and can take the heat.

PS: The rest of you post was useful. Wish I had a PuttLab nearby.

 

[golfdad]

i think a lot of times we agree or disagree online at the mercy of how we perceive what others are saying, whether it is in the same context as our own, so there can be misunderstanding on some level.

i am not going to play nice here, but i see merits in both lindsey's statement in question as well as softconsult's reaction, which can be softer one can argue but hey.

first, i totally concur that putting, even having totally grasped the so called "basics", has a lot of a luck component to it. essentially it comes down to a gamble on which decision to pursue in terms of speed control and break reading. every new putt is a new book. say there is a dent or a mark on the line, does it matter? if it does, how much of a factor... is a faster roll to roll over it the answer for this particular situation,,,well, hmmm, just dunno. the more we dwell on it, the worse the outcome, so we tell ourselves to go with our instinct. just do it and wish us luck.

after softconsult's so called initial reaction saying you can't be serious, the rest of his post is set up in such a way to illustrate the point that indeed bad putters on a good day or days can putt like devils. if by luck the putter face and speed is just right, the ball goes in.

of course, we all agree that if given a choice to establish better basics and play with more assurance of better outcomes over the long term, that is the way to go. but, as with anything else in life, some people are caught in some stages of their lives that to go through the daily grind to improve may not be on the top of their priorities. they just want to go out to play. whatever, whatever.

cheers.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Lindsey,

Dont sweat Steve, he never offers anything to these threads worth reading. He is a master of all trades.

Last month, I too was on a Sam Puttlab, but in Dallas at the Hank Haney Center (only for a club fitting w/ cool clubs I swear).

Anyways, starting out on 8 ft putts not looking at the face aim on screen, I made 10 in a row. My overall rating was only a 69%, but my consistancy was 90%. My face at impact was 1.5deg closed and a path at 2.5deg right.

After they worked with me the next 10 putts I think I made maybe 5. But my overall rating had increased to a 77%, but my consistancy was at 80%. My face at impact was .7deg and path was 1.2deg to the right.

Anyways I really liked putting on it. Definitley worth the money. Did I necessarily make more putts? No, but probably after I practice the stroke they showed me in a couple of weeks I could be making the putts. I do agree that this is a great asset and you definitley need good instructor. From what I read, the sensors can just be slightly off and really throw off the numbers. So a good instructor is a must.

What were your numbers? Did you get the color printouts?

My overall rating was an 86.4%. My consistency was 84%. My face at impact was 0.5 to the right and the path was 0.0. All that sounds good but my acceleration profile was not tour like in that I kept accelerating past the ball. Because my face rotation is so minimal I am hooding and opening going back and through to get the face square which provides a very undynamic hit or stroke. Basically I need to use the putter like a putter not a croquet mallet.

 

[Richie3Jack]

It's definitely a good tool. I think it helps with major kinks in your putting stroke, which can cause a myriad of things to go wrong and can help with putter fitting.




3JACK

 

[matt kluck]

Thanks Lindsey

My overall rating was an 86.4%. My consistency was 84%. My face at impact was 0.5 to the right and the path was 0.0. All that sounds good but my acceleration profile was not tour like in that I kept accelerating past the ball. Because my face rotation is so minimal I am hooding and opening going back and through to get the face square which provides a very undynamic hit or stroke. Basically I need to use the putter like a putter not a croquet mallet.

Thank you for the nice comments you made regarding working on the SAM PuttLab and with me. You are a great student of the game and you made helping you fun!

Lindsey's numbers are tour level (85% and up is considered tour level) and some of the highest I ever measured on the Putt Lab but he was ready to pack it in due to the fact nothing went in. We hit many putts from 4 meters to get an accurate read due to the fact most of the numbers SAM uses are based on this distance. Shorter and/or longer putts can be measured but I find this distance to be best when assessing a student. We essentially visited five parameters in the putt lab and the 3D visual. Lindsey took off on the suggestions like "Grant through Richmond" and the dynamics of his stroke and the matching of the path/face/plane to centered contact was noticeable within minutes without any real corrective stroke thoughts, just impressions. Both Lindsey and Kevin showed renewed enthusiasm in their ability to putt which I believe, is half the battle. Knowing you are going to roll the putt well is why we have confidence and will make more putts without the luck factor being a huge ingredient.

Good luck to them and to all on this forum in golf!
MK

 

[Matt 4-L]

Lindsey, thanks for the comments about the SAM putt lab, I have been struggling with the putter as well. I have been striking the ball well and hitting 75-80 percent of greens and shooting mediocre rounds because of poor putting. I put some rubber bands on the face of my putter so if I miss as much as a quarter inch either way I would know it. I very rarely missed the sweet spot but my distance control and face control were poor. I am curious as to what changes you are making because of your putting session, I would love for you to expound on it a bit more. Technique wise that is.

 

[dcg1952]

Does the information from the SAM putt lab tell a player what type of putter they should use ie blade vs mallet ?

 

[niblick1]

Does the information from the SAM putt lab tell a player what type of putter they should use ie blade vs mallet ?

Great question. I was wondering if the significance of sweetspot misses meant moving people to higher MOI putters. Also wondering if the session made Lindsey think about using a different putter.

I also wonder if Matt ever gets into d-plane stuff on putter path meaning advocating cut stroke or an aim right/hit up stroke or if it is all about just getting close to zeros, however that is possible. Also whether certain types of strokes (say a shoulder-rocking stroke) have big advantages/disadvantages.

I'd love to spend some time on one of these machines with someone (like Matt) who has looked at a lot of people putt. If I were a pro, I'd own one of these machines.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Lindsey, thanks for the comments about the SAM putt lab, I have been struggling with the putter as well. I have been striking the ball well and hitting 75-80 percent of greens and shooting mediocre rounds because of poor putting. I put some rubber bands on the face of my putter so if I miss as much as a quarter inch either way I would know it. I very rarely missed the sweet spot but my distance control and face control were poor. I am curious as to what changes you are making because of your putting session, I would love for you to expound on it a bit more. Technique wise that is.

I would say I am adding more swing to my putter with and emphasis on a more downward hit. I am also very focused to dumping all of my energy into the ball. I used to be very controlling over my forward stroke almost to the point of drawing a line with it. The putter had very little forward swing, so I would have to accelerate again at the bottom of my stroke (weird, I know) and I had a longer contrived follow thru. I used a face balanced putter and tried to make very straight back and thru strokes and that tends to be to manipulative. Now I went back to a toe weighted putter to get the swing and arc happening just a bit more.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

Great question. I was wondering if the significance of sweetspot misses meant moving people to higher MOI putters. Also wondering if the session made Lindsey think about using a different putter.

I also wonder if Matt ever gets into d-plane stuff on putter path meaning advocating cut stroke or an aim right/hit up stroke or if it is all about just getting close to zeros, however that is possible. Also whether certain types of strokes (say a shoulder-rocking stroke) have big advantages/disadvantages.

I'd love to spend some time on one of these machines with someone (like Matt) who has looked at a lot of people putt. If I were a pro, I'd own one of these machines.

I will let Matt expand on d-plane and that stuff, but I definitely dumped my face balanced putter for something with more toe weight. I am not sure Matt would say that was necessary, but I think it has helped me to have more swing to my stroke.

As far as stroke types, I was always a shoulder "Pelz" type putter. I have always been very good inside of 4-5 feet. I never have made very many longer putts. My speed and feel on longer putts has always been poor. Being as committed to I was to my shoulder rocking form, I would not allow myself to use hand or arms at all no matter how long the putt. Obviously that sounds ridiculous, but I guess if you knew me it would make more sense. Anyway, like I told both Kevin and Matt, I could not believe how fee, but reckless my new stroke feels. Funny thing is that my feel is shockingly better. I have already in the last 5 days, holed some long putts. I still have enormous amount of work to do, but I am excited.

 

[ZAP]

I guess I know where my winter road trip will be. Never been to Pittsburgh before. Sounds like as good an excuse as any.

 

[dcg1952]

I guess I know where my winter road trip will be. Never been to Pittsburgh before. Sounds like as good an excuse as any.

As`a Pittsburgh resident I can assure you that seeing Matt Kluck or Kevin Shields probably tops the list as a reason to come here in the winter. Then again, we do have teams that play football and hockey pretty well and a college team that plays basketball in a decent fashion. But leave your sunglasses at home---no sun here from Nov 1st through niddle of March. Dave

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