Mike Richardson
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Yeah that's great, thanks Drew.
Sasho Mackenzie's latest
- Thread starter drewyallop
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Nice synopsis Drew. That pretty much sums it up.
"...something like premature ejaculation." Don't remember that one though
Yeah - next time I hit a big slice, I'll be sure to follow it up with "I'm sorry, its never happened to me before"
Robbierob99
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Okay, so we all know this (this being the advantages of being "laid off" / club being below the hand plane at least in the transition before everything starts going down) has been talked about several times..... And I apologize if this is addressed elshwhere already, but how do we get the club there?
Seems for me it's easier if get the club more upright on the backswing... but that only works for a few days.
The next thing, the thing that sticks, is a whole lot more of M. Jacobs table-top, lead arm replacement, "steeper" hand path to tumble the face square. I guess what I'm saying is I find it difficult to attack it by trying to get the club below the "golfer's swing plane" (the hand plane), but that remembering & emphasizing Lead arm replacement early in my transition the club just gets below and I can tumble all the way to a square or slightly closed club-face.
Here's the easiest way I can explain what I'm trying: I think about (while always trying to get and keep my back to the target) jabbing the butt of the handle into the inside of my left leg. As an added bonus, it seems much easier to get the left-hand-on-the-wall release when I get this done. Obviously, at some point, my pivot activates or I would actually hit my left leg. So I get a squarer club-face and a freer release.
Having to save it & force the tumble or feeling that I'm fighting off a reverse tumble is sure sign I tugged with left shoulder, steepend the shaft somehow or never got my back to the target.
Just my 2¢ and what I'm feeling with my swing at the moment.
Seems for me it's easier if get the club more upright on the backswing... but that only works for a few days.
The next thing, the thing that sticks, is a whole lot more of M. Jacobs table-top, lead arm replacement, "steeper" hand path to tumble the face square. I guess what I'm saying is I find it difficult to attack it by trying to get the club below the "golfer's swing plane" (the hand plane), but that remembering & emphasizing Lead arm replacement early in my transition the club just gets below and I can tumble all the way to a square or slightly closed club-face.
Here's the easiest way I can explain what I'm trying: I think about (while always trying to get and keep my back to the target) jabbing the butt of the handle into the inside of my left leg. As an added bonus, it seems much easier to get the left-hand-on-the-wall release when I get this done. Obviously, at some point, my pivot activates or I would actually hit my left leg. So I get a squarer club-face and a freer release.
Having to save it & force the tumble or feeling that I'm fighting off a reverse tumble is sure sign I tugged with left shoulder, steepend the shaft somehow or never got my back to the target.
Just my 2¢ and what I'm feeling with my swing at the moment.
drewyallop
New
May not work for you Robbie but I have had success thinking about pronation and supination of the lead forearm. At the top I try to get both planes the same. At start down I pronate a little.This gets the club plane under the swing plane. Then accelerate the hands down and supinate like hell. Body plays a supporting role but don't let the body become static. Of course this does not happen step by step. The pronation is for me very brief and flows immediately into supination (my hands are low at start down. Higher hands would give you more time). A lot of feel here and timing. I started off slow. Letting the hands feel how the club head moves. Then build up speed. But once you get it, well, as BM says, you are swinging the club as a club and not as a telephone pole.
May help.
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Robbierob99
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lia41985
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I think you're both onto something. Take a look at Sergio (click on the first, largest picture to launch a slideshow:
https://picasaweb.google.com/106612...CKaYvq2Y5tKigQE#slideshow/5730322488215387906
He definitely flattens the club, pronates the left forearm, and also externally rotates the right shoulder, a lot!
Internally rotating the right shoulder, too-early supination of the left forearm, and an outward hand path are all features, but not necessarily causes
, of the tug. I would say most of the amateur golf population does not have this sort of mobility in their shoulders. Here are some exercises that Gary Woodland employs:<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O5cUKj7kYJ0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Eric Cressey is a well-known trainer who has worked with several professional baseball pitchers. As you could imagine, shoulder health is crucial for these athletes. Eric's has written a relevant piece here: http://www.ericcressey.com/shoulder-mobility-drills-how-to-improve-external-rotation
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drewyallop
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Robbierob99
New
HAHA, On the range at 645am, I figured that one out myself!!! I knew what you meant once I got down to it.
Here's my thoughts: It may have something to do with me being more of an "elbow plane" guy than a "shoulder plane" guy (just a guess)but this feeling didn't get the trick done (it seemed to work some times, but I wouldn't say I was batting more than .500 with it).
Some smart guy I know once told me: "You have to train yourself to not just make a backswing and GO... You have to realize that something GOES first (the arms), then the rest goes (the chest, pivot, and so-on)." <---- JUST LIKE IN the PICTURES in THE Recent RORY THREAD
Thinking about Lead Arm Replacement works best for me (even with putting, if I ever get a case of the pushes, that feeling squares me back up) which means a lot: I can't tug 1st of all, I gotta let the left forearm "rotate," I have to have the intention of "aiming" the butt of the club somewhere toward the inside of my left leg, I can't dip the right shoulder before letting the arms go... all that and I get L.A.R. done correctly otherwise its a tug, shoulder dip, hand flying toward ball, flip, and/or try to save it with some other manipulation (80% of the time it ends in a glancing blow dying quail to the right --- I HATE IT; the other 20% is straight ball that doesn't get me in too much trouble).
Right now I'm the Mayor of 2-WAY-MISS-VILLE! (except with the Driver that goes straight every time).
Perhaps I'm screwing it up by getting that "pitch right elbow" going instead of having a more level shoulder turn. WHO knows. I need to go see the Doctor.
lia41985
New member
Right shoulder external rotation at the top of the backswing of an old Tiger swing.
Looks to be about 90* to horizontal with the ground (looking at the light blue line)
See that green line?
Watch where his left arm gets "replaced" to.
And where were those arms at setup?
Is there a Dariusz J in the house? I've got footage of an old-time golfer with a "setup-dependent" swing on what appears to be a Gulfstream, no, make that an Early Elbow Plane!!!
Seriously, bro
Looks to be about 90* to horizontal with the ground (looking at the light blue line)
See that green line?
Watch where his left arm gets "replaced" to.
And where were those arms at setup?
Is there a Dariusz J in the house? I've got footage of an old-time golfer with a "setup-dependent" swing on what appears to be a Gulfstream, no, make that an Early Elbow Plane!!!
Seriously, bro
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Dariusz J.
New member
Is there a Dariusz J in the house? I've got footage of an old-time golfer with a "setup-dependent" swing on what appears to be a Gulfstream, no, make that an Early Elbow Plane!!!
Seriously, bro
Yes, I am. How can I help you ? Please formulate your question in a more legible way for me.
Cheers
Dariusz J.
New member
At my first glance - no. His stance is parallellish and no sign of joints presets.
However, if one person's swing is a setup-dependent or not, that person decides, not observators. I can make my own swing a setup-dependent with some tricks like diagonal stance, joints presets, trigger compression phase, grip, waggle, etc. But someone else can make it setup-dependent for himself using his own method.
If it is young Woods on the pics and if he used his own method of setup-dependent swing surely it wasn't the greatest method but much better than in case of today's Woods.
Why do you ask ?
Cheers
Dariusz J.
New member
I think this God gifted golfer's setup and how it relates to the movement of the shoulders and arms throughout the swing is done by intelligent design
Sure, but what exactly your intention in this discussion is ?
Cheers
rcw
New
Dorsiflexion of left wrist...
The combination of the move you are describing, coupled with the dorsiflexion(bending) of the left wrist seems to be exactly how
Hogan started his downswing. Then he also had that strong supination feel. Make sense?
The combination of the move you are describing, coupled with the dorsiflexion(bending) of the left wrist seems to be exactly how
Hogan started his downswing. Then he also had that strong supination feel. Make sense?
drewyallop
New
Does make sense rcw. I think dorsiflexion at the top puts the club plane above the golfer plane. Yes? If so, it will take more work to get the club plane below the golfer plane at impact.
I have been experimenting a lot with the laid off thing. I have found that a lot depends on what right elbow does. Bringing it straight down to the hip seems to result in two things: a slight pronation of the forearm and increased dorsiflexion of the right hand. This seems to give me the right amount of laid off and at the right time. But key for me is keeping the wrists relaxed. I know when they are not. I cannot feel the club drop and then an inevitable slice.
Caution ... I am not a teacher nor a biomechanist and can only talk to my swing. All this may be totally inappropriate for others.
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