Secondary Axis Tilt
- Thread starter EdStraker
- Start date
- Status
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Skipping rocks on a pond.
Throwing baseballs sidearm.
UNDERhanded javelin throws.
Throwing baseballs sidearm.
UNDERhanded javelin throws.
Here is a good drill that I found really help me feel the second axis tilt. I hope that Brain doesn't mind me posting this.
1. Stand in your normal address position without a club.
2. Imagine a spot on the ground in front of your right foot but on the target line (i.e. roughly a foot behind the ball)
3. Now hold the club in your left hand, your left arm extended out parallel to the ground (but kind of across your chest), with the handle end of the club touching the spot described above.
4. Now make your backswing leaving your left arm in the position described above and your right arm folding as normal, and shoulders rotating.
5. From this top position, start to make your downswing by making your right arm "go under the left arm". Feel the left shoulder staying almost motionless and your right shoulder going down. You should also feel your hips want to move, which you should let them.
This should also feel like you are skipping rocks on a pond as Brain described above.
1. Stand in your normal address position without a club.
2. Imagine a spot on the ground in front of your right foot but on the target line (i.e. roughly a foot behind the ball)
3. Now hold the club in your left hand, your left arm extended out parallel to the ground (but kind of across your chest), with the handle end of the club touching the spot described above.
4. Now make your backswing leaving your left arm in the position described above and your right arm folding as normal, and shoulders rotating.
5. From this top position, start to make your downswing by making your right arm "go under the left arm". Feel the left shoulder staying almost motionless and your right shoulder going down. You should also feel your hips want to move, which you should let them.
This should also feel like you are skipping rocks on a pond as Brain described above.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Davis Love Jr. used that drill a lot...it's pretty good.
Michael Finney
New
uk hacker.....
post away...brian will never be upset about you posting any of your opinions or suggestions....
the "no jumping" rule is in effect around here...as well...this is a "no spin" zone
post away...brian will never be upset about you posting any of your opinions or suggestions....
the "no jumping" rule is in effect around here...as well...this is a "no spin" zone
It seems like secondary axis tilt is a very natural action. It's only because of the tension many people build in their swing that we might not do it. Especially when we move our body forward on the downswing so we can hit a crisp downward shot.
But, I guess the problem was that we were casting and don't trust the tilt to get us there without chunking it.
But, I guess the problem was that we were casting and don't trust the tilt to get us there without chunking it.
Brian: In a post on Phil Mickelson you mention that the trouble shooters have reduced the amount of secondary axis tilt in his swing and that if you were teaching him you would increase it. You said that Ballard hates secondary axis tilt. You also said that Fred Couples used to really compress the ball. I have been watching old footage of his action and notice that he made a big move left with his hips in the down swing . Deeper left than most players. I was wondering if this was a major contributing factor in his ability to really compress the ball ? Could you go into the amount of secondary axis tilt YOU like to see in a swing? Thanks.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
enough to get the shoulder plane line on the same plane line as the swing from at least release point through the swivel....
...which Couples used to do better than anyone!
...which Couples used to do better than anyone!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
THE REASON you need axis tilt (secondary axis tilt are Mac's words) IS to get the right shoulder on plane through impact.
Turfspanker
New
Brian - Let's say someone has good position at the top but at the transition only gets a few degrees of axis tilt and slides the body targetward.
Would the downswing plane be steep (down the shoulder plane)?
Would this cause the club to change ends before the hands reach the right thigh?
Would the hands come into impact higher than at address?
I have the above symptoms, but still hit it flush and long with a forward leaning shaft at impact, good divots, both arms straight about a foot beyond.
I hate this move by the way and would like to learn how to drive the right shoulder deeper downplane and get on the elbow plane.
Hold #4 accumulator angle and drive the right elbow to the ball before cranking the hips?
Thanks - Turfspanker
Would the downswing plane be steep (down the shoulder plane)?
Would this cause the club to change ends before the hands reach the right thigh?
Would the hands come into impact higher than at address?
I have the above symptoms, but still hit it flush and long with a forward leaning shaft at impact, good divots, both arms straight about a foot beyond.
I hate this move by the way and would like to learn how to drive the right shoulder deeper downplane and get on the elbow plane.
Hold #4 accumulator angle and drive the right elbow to the ball before cranking the hips?
Thanks - Turfspanker
Turfspanker
New
I have a new golfing term I made up today.
During the downswing the clubhead changes positions with the grip end of the club.
You come down with the butt of the club driving to the ball and then centrifigal force takes over and the clubhead drops below the butt end.
In my swing the clubhead changes position with the butt of the club to early in the downswing.
It's my "butthead move".
Axis tilt should make my butthead move better.
Turfspanker
During the downswing the clubhead changes positions with the grip end of the club.
You come down with the butt of the club driving to the ball and then centrifigal force takes over and the clubhead drops below the butt end.
In my swing the clubhead changes position with the butt of the club to early in the downswing.
It's my "butthead move".
Axis tilt should make my butthead move better.
Turfspanker
Footsteps.....
Brian, not lead you or anyone else on here along, but I want to elaborate on this - I learned it a bit differently.
Secondary axis tilt allows the right shoulder to get onplane, I agree, but not necessarily for impact - for the start down ` potentially to impact, but accumulator 3 angle will determine whether the right shoulder actually gets on the same plane with the shaft - therefore, if there is any accumulator 3 angle, the shoulders should use a steeper plane after the initial start down - which of course would mean they wouldnt be 'on plane' at impact.
The second reason would be to establish a lag relationship to the planeline - that relationship is what clears the right hip...hands controlled pivot. If you establish a lag relationship to the plane line (lets think of aiming point-driving the lag to a spot on the planeline), you will clear the hips, right shoulder will get on plane (again-start down since we are merely establishing that relationship) and power package will have both the geometrical and physical requiremnts to have a powerful, precise stroke.
-Patrick
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Good post Randy...
I should have said "selected plane"
I should have said "selected plane"
- Status