Setup question

[vandal]

I'm new to all this stuff and don't yet have a copy of TGM so forgive me. I've been reading here and at the some other TGM sites about impact fix and alignments and such but am a bit confused on the proper way to set up to the ball.

On the "Flipper" video Brian sets up with the club handle facing his belt buckle. Over here, I hope you don't mind me linking,http://www.iseekgolf.com/golfschool/articles.php?gs_id=1 set up is explained in what I thought was more of an impact-fix position. Am I supposed to try and swing from this position? Or, do I just use it to get the feeling of where I should be at impact and then address the ball normally?

I noticed that if I let the club's normal loft take place at set up the handle is leaning forward quite a bit, which puts my hands about the middle of my left thigh and nowhere near my belt buckle.

 

[shootin4par]

if you set up with 12 degrees of forward shaft lean and reach impact with 5 degrees, your clubhead will be further DOWN, in relation to your hands, at impact increasing your chances of chunking. If you set up with 0* and reach impact at 5* your clubhead will be further UP, Improving your chances of hitting down on the ball.

 

[Erik_K]

You can do either and it depends on who you talk to. Brian stated the you should take your grip from the impact fix position. However, when he swings, it looks like to me anyway, that he assumes a classic address position.

 

[shootin4par]

taking your grip from impact fix does not mean staying that way in the set up position

 

[vandal]

quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

taking your grip from impact fix does not mean staying that way in the set up position

But if I take my grip from impact fix and then set up to the ball normally, that is to say with the butt end of the club pointing at my belt buckle, it appears that the clubface is now set closed. Is this how it should be?

 

[hue]

quote:Originally posted by vandal

quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

taking your grip from impact fix does not mean staying that way in the set up position

But if I take my grip from impact fix and then set up to the ball normally, that is to say with the butt end of the club pointing at my belt buckle, it appears that the clubface is now set closed. Is this how it should be?

Yes

 

[birdie_man]

Closed? Really? Never heard that before.

 

[vandal]

So, how should it look? I actually think I'm confusing two concepts here. The impact address position is fine to start from, and preferred for the hitter, right? The more traditional, or Y-type setup is preferred for the swinger, but the hands at this point are not the same as impact position, which means that they must be put that way during the swing?

 

[birdie_man]

quote:Originally posted by vandal

The impact address position is fine to start from, and preferred for the hitter, right?

Yes....true.

quote:The more traditional, or Y-type setup is preferred for the swinger, but the hands at this point are not the same as impact position, which means that they must be put that way during the swing?

Also true. Bent at Standard Address. Flat at Impact.

....

As to moving to a closed clubface when going from Impact Fix to Adjusted Address.....I'd like to know what someone IN the know thinks.

 

[Robbohank]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Closed? Really? Never heard that before.

Birdie,

I believe this is true, and I'm pretty sure Brian stated it somewhere in a response to a question. I was always somewhat confused by this, thinking that I was supposed to be slightly open at ADDRESS (so it would be square at separation). Of course it needs to be slightly open at impact fix (square at separation), which does indeed put it in a slightly closed orientation when you go back to address by moving the butt of the club back pointing more toward your belt buckle. Of course this assumes a horizontal hinge is used.

 

[vandal]

So, if I'm trying a hitting procedure and taking my setup position from impact address, should the face be open a little, square or closed? What about for a swinging procedure? I think I read or saw video somewhere saying that the longer the shot the more open or closed the clubface should be at address, but I can't remember what was for which procedure.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

If you take your grip at impact fix and them move back to "adjusted address" you have to BEND your left wrist don't you? BENDING the left wrist CLOSES the face.

 

[birdie_man]

Impact Fix is with the clubface slightly open though.

....?

 

[Robbohank]

quote:Originally posted by vandal

So, if I'm trying a hitting procedure and taking my setup position from impact address, should the face be open a little, square or closed? What about for a swinging procedure? I think I read or saw video somewhere saying that the longer the shot the more open or closed the clubface should be at address, but I can't remember what was for which procedure.

Vandal,

The following would be the clubface orientation at IMPACT FIX to ensure the clubface is square to the target line at separation.

Per 2-J-1, IMPACT ALIGNMENTS:

Swinging - "For Horizontal Hinging, it is slightly "Open" at Impact Fix to allow for "Closing" during Impact. The longer the shot, the more "Open".

Hitting - "Angled Hinging gives the Clubface a Slice producing uncentered motion so while the Clubface does "Close" during Impact, Clubface alignment is slightly "Open" for short shots but for longer shots it must be set up more and more "Closed".

If you use a "classic" address postition of left wrist bent, right wrist flat, I believe the clubface would close further from the impact fix conditions above.

I suspect the exact amount of "open" and "closed" is a matter of personal experimentation.

Robbo

 

[vandal]

Thanks for the help all. And I'm interpreting the more closed part of the clubface alignment of the hitting procedure during setup to be a relative term, so that finally, with a driver it is nearly square at address.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I hit it so much better with a Classic Address and a slightly closed clubhead at address.

The guys at the kool-aid stand don't teach that, but I do.

Open at IMPACT. Square at SEPARATION, Closed at (standard) address.

 

[Brian Manzella]

quote:Originally posted by vandal

I noticed that if I let the club's normal loft take place at set up the handle is leaning forward quite a bit, which puts my hands about the middle of my left thigh and nowhere near my belt buckle.

The golf clubs LOFT is only accurately measured with the shaft VERTICAL.

There are many—like Chuck Evans and Lynn Blake—who use a idea of "the way the club is designed" to measure how much the ball position should change at address.

I have NEVER EVER heard this "way the club is designed" theory used anyplace else in golf, and as far as I can see, nowhere in The Golfing Machine.

I am working on an article/video where I am taking about the things that have worked the best in my 24 year teaching career.

One of them is Standard Address. The great players all seem to agree.

WAIT! WAIT!

Doesn't Jack Nicklaus have his has in-line with the shaft at address?

Yup.

But, he does a little "lagging clubhead takeaway" (very slight) that takes this alignment OUT, soon into his swing.

 

[vandal]

Thanks for all the explanations and help. I'm working on a few things and hope to upload video in the next few days so the crowd here can have a good laugh.