Shaft Lean and path throughout the bag

[Tball88]

ok, I understand from Brian's studies that in order to hit a ball straight with an iron you must swing left to offset the down, and to hit a driver straight you should swing slightly up and right. So my question is, ideally would your amount of shaft lean decrease, and path go more right as you work your way through the bag from a sand wedge to a driver?

ie: you swing the most down left, and have the most lean with a sand wedge, then with a pitching wedge, you'll have slightly less down left, and less lean, etc. etc.

Your longest iron would have very little lean and only slightly left.

Your woods start having no lean and start swinging right.

Thanks

 

[DCgolf]

The longer the club the flatter it lies and the more it swings right as it swings down and needs more left to offset that. A 90 degree lie would need no left at all

 

[cwdlaw223]

More loft automatically means more shaft lean. Why? Because more loft means the COG of the face is farther from the leading edge. You must hit down on high lofted clubs and by hitting down you'll obtain shaft lean.

The hard part is obtaining shaft lean without hitting down that much. That's the holy grail and it is very, very difficult. I can play the ball back in my stance and deloft with the best of them. BUT, it causes a steep AoA and causes other problems.

 

[mgranato]

The longer the club the flatter it lies and the more it swings right as it swings down and needs more left to offset that. A 90 degree lie would need no left at all

Angle of attack determines the amount of left (or right) for any club, correct?

 

[cwdlaw223]

Angle of attack determines the amount of left (or right) for any club, correct?

Generally yes if the sweetspot traveling in space was on a perfect arc. The sweetspot travels on more of an elipse near and through impact. You could have a zero AoA and a path going left or right so there's more to it than just the AoA affecting path. BUT, AoA still plays a decent role in the true path.

The faster the ballspeed the more one needs face angle and true path to be very close for a straight shot.

 

[DCgolf]

Angle of attack determines the amount of left (or right) for any club, correct?

You mean the more down the more right and vice versa. But on a 90 degree club (if there were such a tool) I'd have an AA with no right correct? But when we incline it, the flatter the lie the more right it's headed no?

 

[softconsult]

I'm no rocket scientist, but based on the D-Plane diagram it should also depend on where the ball in located on the arc. Also I think that "hit a driver straight you should swing slightly up and right." is not correct. Lots of ways to hit a Driver straight. More like to hit the Driver longer you need a posititve angle of attack. To compensate for the impact occurring on the upswing you need to have the path going to the right of target line.

 

[DCgolf]

On a 90 degree plane all points on the circle are at the target. On a 60 degree plane every degree down is a half a degree out and on a 45 degree plane every degree down is 1 degree out. Same relationship with up. Except for my tournament players, I try to get everybody to hit up 3-4 degrees, so aim most people right with the driver with the ball off the left heel

 

[cwdlaw223]

What do you do differently for tournament players?

 

[DCgolf]

What do you do differently for tournament players?

Ive got 2 guys up and over 120 MPH, and a few over 117. Seems like most of the time when they get +AA they hook it. They get more accurate at -1? Don't know if that is scientific or even universal but it follows with what i Read on the high speed tour players as well

 

[cwdlaw223]

Ive got 2 guys up and over 120 MPH, and a few over 117. Seems like most of the time when they get +AA they hook it. They get more accurate at -1? Don't know if that is scientific or even universal but it follows with what i Read on the high speed tour players as well

I'm 118 max and when I hit up it goes left. Why? I suspect there's something to the face angle closing even faster on the upswing. Purely a guess and I suspect this is pattern specific for "slingers" like myself. I don't try to delay my right hand release and hit up. I think Brian mentioned how to hit up properly with a driver in one of his videos. It's not easy given all of those forces down near the impact zone. (Brian mentioned this as well).

It's hard (for me) to have lag and not have a steep AoA and it's also hard (for me) to hit up with a driver and hit it straight. I prefer hitting down about 1-2* with my driver. Much easier to control.

 

[DCgolf]

tour average is +1. good enough for me.

 

[Robbierob99]

Ive got 2 guys up and over 120 MPH, and a few over 117. Seems like most of the time when they get +AA they hook it. They get more accurate at -1? Don't know if that is scientific or even universal but it follows with what i Read on the high speed tour players as well

I am by NO MEANS AN instructor, but for the guys that hit on my TrackMan (mostly 1-3 handicappers or better, some much better), it's pretty random: Some HIGH speed guys are better with +2 to +4 some -1 to -2 and some LOWer speed guys are better slightly down to up. In my small sample of decent players, I've not seen ANYONE who's hit a driver well (accurate and reasonably long) hit down on it more than 2º.

HOWEVER, pretty much across the board (i know it's a small sample size), the guys who DO NOT DO WELL with a POSITIVE AoA just can't seem to get comfortable aiming a little more right (or swinging a little more right) than their normal aim (or swing) to compensate for the positive AoA. They are either too stubborn to aim/swing a little further right, don't like the idea of doing it or don't understand why that would work (some people just don't want to know about the D-Plane believe it or not). That's my observation & guess on why that's what I've seen.

 

[tongzilla]

Robbie, just wondering if you see in your sample size any players having their stance open even though they are aiming right to compensate for the upward AoA? When I go watch pros play in tournament, I noticed so many of them have an open stance even with driver, although they may well be aiming right.

 

[Robbierob99]

Robbie, just wondering if you see in your sample size any players having their stance open even though they are aiming right to compensate for the upward AoA? When I go watch pros play in tournament, I noticed so many of them have an open stance even with driver, although they may well be aiming right.

Of the guys that frequently hit on my trackman, looking at their feet it's a little more random player to player, but I'd say if you look at shoulders & hips (hips less so than shoulders) they generally "look" more on the open side of the fence and - other than one guy who ALWAYS hits a draw or hook - no one really looks closed. My THEORY is that the additional Right Side Bend gives a more open look, I wouldn't say it IS more open, it just looks more open.

The guys that are hitting on my trackman all AIM consistently (they might not be aiming at what I think they are aiming at, but when they say they are aiming at X it generally looks the same. Whether I'd say it was where they were aiming or not, it at least looks the same every time they set up. For example: One guy always looks like he's aiming 10 yards left with a driver so If I'd ask him to aim a little more right, I'd be looking for a 5 yards left look... BUT instead he just says "OK" and still aims 10 yards left and CAN'T hit it well when he's hitting up on it. That's what I was referring to.)