Silly Geometry Question for Ball Flight

[Jim Kobylinski]

Ok, as many of my students know i hit the ball pretty darn straight. However i'll admit i'm more on the fade side of the matrix than the draw but on most of my shots they go fairly straight or move a few yards left or right, but not much at all.

Because i am on the fade side of the matrix and always had issues of when i learned to swing right i swung too far right so that's why i went back to the fade. However i'm finding that as my skill level improves and my scores keep getting lower and the possibility of me getting my amatuer status back and playing in tournaments next year i need to find a reliable way to draw the ball.

When i try to draw it i either over cook it or push it. So i was thinking last night that if i want to draw the ball i need to have a closed face at separation with a slightly in/out path or i could i could just aim right and play a kind of pull draw where the plane was good but i ended up with a closed face at separation.

So i was thinking, is there any reason why i couldn't aim right, swing how i normally do and just hit the BACK of the ball instead of the inside aft so that i end up with a slightly closed face at separation and i'll get some draw action?

Thanks

 

[Bigwill]

You're way ahead of me, golfwise, so take this for what it's worth. The way you're proposing sounds more reliable, especially if you have a swing that produces little curvature. Don't change the swing; it seems to me that if you change your swing to produce draws, you'll be messing with the consistency of your swing. Close the clubface, aim right, and swing how you always do. If I'm not mistaken, that's how Jack said he did it. The ball will start right and curve back either way, but the second method seems simpler to me, as you only have to change one thing (clubface or contact spot on the ball); your swing, and your swing feels, would stay the same.

 

[holeout]

Why do you need to draw it?

Most of the really successful guys (amateur-wise) learn to hit ONE shot shape and stick with it. The only go against it when push comes to shove and they absolutely HAVE to hit it.

Stick with your fade. If you can't hit a fairway with it because of the angle, lay back with a 3-wood or 2 iron. Shaping the ball is overrated.

 

[birdie_man]

Ok, as many of my students know i hit the ball pretty darn straight. However i'll admit i'm more on the fade side of the matrix than the draw but on most of my shots they go fairly straight or move a few yards left or right, but not much at all.

Because i am on the fade side of the matrix and always had issues of when i learned to swing right i swung too far right so that's why i went back to the fade. However i'm finding that as my skill level improves and my scores keep getting lower and the possibility of me getting my amatuer status back and playing in tournaments next year i need to find a reliable way to draw the ball.

When i try to draw it i either over cook it or push it. So i was thinking last night that if i want to draw the ball i need to have a closed face at separation with a slightly in/out path or i could i could just aim right and play a kind of pull draw where the plane was good but i ended up with a closed face at separation.

So i was thinking, is there any reason why i couldn't aim right, swing how i normally do and just hit the BACK of the ball instead of the inside aft so that i end up with a slightly closed face at separation and i'll get some draw action?

Thanks

Jim....I think I am having more or less exactly the same problem. But like you I do want to be able to do it all. (without changing my swing too much to have to do it)

 

[Spike]

Do you have round or reminder grips?

Have you experimented with ball position?

Drill in and master horizontal hinging?

Check lie angle of clubs...maybe too flat?

Is this a trick question?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Why do you need to draw it?

Most of the really successful guys (amateur-wise) learn to hit ONE shot shape and stick with it. The only go against it when push comes to shove and they absolutely HAVE to hit it.

Stick with your fade. If you can't hit a fairway with it because of the angle, lay back with a 3-wood or 2 iron. Shaping the ball is overrated.

Because if you want to be REALLY good you have to be able, on occassion do both. Can't quite get that 8 iron 157 yards because yours only carries 150 and a 7 iron is too much? You need to learn how to draw the 8 iron to get a few extra yards to get it there.

This isn't a thread for you to ask why i have to draw it, i know why i have to draw it, on occassion, or as you say when i HAVE TO. So either tell me your opinion, or please don't post again.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Do you have round or reminder grips?

Have you experimented with ball position?

Drill in and master horizontal hinging?

Check lie angle of clubs...maybe too flat?

Is this a trick question?

I don't like reminder grips.

Yes, however i play irons with a bit of offset and if i put the ball too far foward it will pull draw, not a reliable way. Also it would force me to use more of a snap release and i moved more towards a random release so i don't quite get my hands as far foward anymore.

I have mastered horizontal hinging. That's why my stock shock is pretty straight. However i play with an open stance and this allows me to fully roll the club and still hit fades if i want, however there are many out there who will tell you it isn't possible even though it show students all the time how to do it. Also, i have accuracy problems simply closing my stance and full rolling on my new rotated plane line. I either don't draw it enough or i over draw it. Hence why i am looking for something more reliable.

this is not a trick question, it's an honest question.

 

[lia41985]

What about the Nickalus approach?: Aim club face at where you want the ball to start, close your stance to this line, and then swing along your footline.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

What about the Nickalus approach?: Aim club face at where you want the ball to start, close your stance to this line, and then swing along your footline.

You will tend to over cook it a little bit doing this, unless you angle hinge like he did.

 

[lia41985]

Using that approach is one option then, I think. How about just setting up with your face a little more closed at setup?

 

[Brian Manzella]

The Dirty little secret about the Draw...

To play HIGH LEVEL golf with a draw, you either need one of the following:

1. A LOT of clubhead speed, in the neighborhood of 125+mph (like Tiger, Bubba Watson, Mike Finney, etc)

2. A LOT of axis tilt (like Tom Lehman, or Tony Lema)

or

3. A LITTLE flip. (like Geoff Ogilvy)

A far as HOW TO do it, well...you need to swing about 6 degrees to the right of your stance line, witha 3 degree open face, and at LEAST one of the above)

See why I try to hit a cut?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

To play HIGH LEVEL golf with a draw, you either need one of the following:

1. A LOT of clubhead speed, in the neighborhood of 125+mph (like Tiger, Bubba Watson, Mike Finney, etc)

More like 112-115

2. A LOT of axis tilt (like Tom Lehman, or Tony Lema)

I don't play great golf doing that, i swing too far right

3. A LITTLE flip. (like Geoff Ogilvy)

well that's crap, how do you control that?

A far as HOW TO do it, well...you need to swing about 6 degrees to the right of your stance line, witha 3 degree open face, and at LEAST one of the above)

See why I try to hit a cut?

I think i'll try the pull draw route . Remember this isn't something i want to play with, just something i want to know how to do if it is needed.

 

[lia41985]

Michael Finney gets 125+ mph clubhead speed...gawd. Brian is there any way you think you can develop that kind of clubhead speed?

 

[Brian Manzella]

No.

You can't develop that kind of speed.

You can become a long hitter—so to speak. Chris Hamburger might be the only person I ever taught for a long time who would never be considered long. But he did hit it straight when he played a lot.

Mike Finney can throw a golf ball 110 yards+

He was previously undefeated throwing against all comers, but his nephew by marriage, a Major League baseball prospect in High School, who can dunk and jump out the gym and throw it 90mph, threw it 115 to beat Mike by 5 yards a couple of weeks back.

Getting old is heck. But he can still hit the crap out of a golf ball.

 

[holeout]

My bad...

Because if you want to be REALLY good you have to be able, on occassion do both. Can't quite get that 8 iron 157 yards because yours only carries 150 and a 7 iron is too much? You need to learn how to draw the 8 iron to get a few extra yards to get it there.

This isn't a thread for you to ask why i have to draw it, i know why i have to draw it, on occassion, or as you say when i HAVE TO. So either tell me your opinion, or please don't post again.

I see your point. Didn't mean to get off topic. I didn't even think of drawing the ball to get a little extra distance out of a shot. That would definitely be an advantage to have.

As far as a method to do this, I personally dislike aiming myself too far to the right if I want to hit a draw. I feel more like I'm going to just flat out pull the ball if I aim right. Possibly some combination of more axis tilt, more forward hands at address, and a ball position farther back could do it.

Let us know if you figure anything out .

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I think i'm going to simply work on a pull draw, may not be "as pretty" but sure worked for someone who won 82 tournaments

 

[tongzilla]

To play HIGH LEVEL golf with a draw, you either need one of the following:

1. A LOT of clubhead speed, in the neighborhood of 125+mph (like Tiger, Bubba Watson, Mike Finney, etc)

2. A LOT of axis tilt (like Tom Lehman, or Tony Lema)

Why why why? Especially 1. ?

 

[Spike]

Go for it, kid!!! Let us know how it all worked out, otherwise our sincere efforts to answer your question would have been in vain.

Good Luck!

 

[birdie_man]

SAM SNEAD.

Just read a book by him.......some interesting "tid" "bits" per se.

BTW if u ask him it was 152........but that is an entirely different topic/debate altogether.

 

[armourall]

Just curious Jim... How do you set up to play an intentional fade? (I mean if you need to bend it a little more right than your normal slight fade tendency.)