Silly Geometry Question for Ball Flight

[Brian Manzella]

Why why why? Especially 1. ?

Think about it Leo.

All three accomplish the same thing.

 

[Cope]

High?

My guess is high.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Just curious Jim... How do you set up to play an intentional fade? (I mean if you need to bend it a little more right than your normal slight fade tendency.)

I play an angled hinge pull fade.

 

[davidmac00]

you what??????

To play HIGH LEVEL golf with a draw, you either need one of the following:

1. A LOT of clubhead speed, in the neighborhood of 125+mph (like Tiger, Bubba Watson, Mike Finney, etc)

2. A LOT of axis tilt (like Tom Lehman, or Tony Lema)

or

3. A LITTLE flip. (like Geoff Ogilvy)

A far as HOW TO do it, well...you need to swing about 6 degrees to the right of your stance line, witha 3 degree open face, and at LEAST one of the above)

See why I try to hit a cut?

1.i dont have a lot of clubhead speed(no idea actually)but driver goes about 280.that aint in the region of 125mph!
2.not much axis tilt
3.nooooo way am i flipping
take a look,i know why in this video i hit a draw,does anyone else?
ps.i played with the last european major winner during the tournament if you want to talk about level of play.

www.putfile.com/davidmac00

i love this site,but brian that last post made nooooo sense!

happy golfing
dmac00

 

[Ryan Smither]

my educated guess is spin/ higher ball flight...

you don't hit a low or even middle height draw and play high-major golf (on the courses today)...

unless you are one of the best short game players in the world....

links golf is a different story

 

[swingobsessed]

\See why I try to hit a cut?

How do you setup to play a cut? Any changes in the swing?

 

[Brian Manzella]

I'll explain.

...that last post made nooooo sense!

If you have a PATH that goes 6 degrees inside-out, and a 2 degree open face, you will get a draw with 4 degrees of "Draw Spin."

You lose 4 degrees of effective loft in doing this.

No problem with a 7-iron, but with a 13° 3 wood or a 8.5° Driver, you need SOMETHING to get the ball in the air.

So... to add to my list,

4. Hit up on it
5. Weak shaft up kick.

Of course....you could probably just have PERFECT timing....

I teach plently folks to draw it—at least half of all my students, so I know a little something about a draw.

I guess I meant a "more than a little draw."

 

[davidmac00]

effective loft?

If you have a PATH that goes 6 degrees inside-out, and a 2 degree open face, you will get a draw with 4 degrees of "Draw Spin."

You lose 4 degrees of effective loft in doing this.

No problem with a 7-iron, but with a 13° 3 wood or a 8.5° Driver, you need SOMETHING to get the ball in the air.

So... to add to my list,

4. Hit up on it
5. Weak shaft up kick.

Of course....you could probably just have PERFECT timing....

I teach plently folks to draw it—at least half of all my students, so I know a little something about a draw.

I guess I meant a "more than a little draw."

Brian,
this is just a question and i would like to understand what really goes on,but my impression is that if the club is open at separation,say 2 degrees,that would add loft regardless of path.no?im sitting at home just now with clubs on the floor and tape indicating path and target lines and when i walk round and look at it from all angles i just dont see the club losing loft?also im not changing the forward lean of the shaft.
i see where you are coming from,but i cant see how it is physically possible for an open faced club to have less effective loft?so a 13 degree lofted 3 wood which is what i use myself when open would then have more than 13 degrees?
can you please explain to me where i am going wrong here?
thanks in advance,
david mccallum

 

[davidmac00]

please post on this as.......

im really uncertain what im missing.
i know your a very busy man,but if you could find the time im ready to learn.

dmac

 

[starretj]

Point of Reference

When Brian states that the face is two degrees open, he is referencing the target line. The face is two degrees open to the target line, but 4 degrees closed to the path (6 degrees in to out). I hope that this helps.

Jim S.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Primer.

I am talking separation numbers....not impact....


EXAMPLE A:
If there is a path (plane line) this is 10° inside-out (to the right) and the face is 10° open (also to the right), and the clubhead has 10° of LOFT to the ground at separation...

The EFFECTIVE LOFT on that Driver is 10°
​

Got it?

EXAMPLE A:
If there is a path (plane line) this is 10° inside-out (to the right) and the face is 5° open (also to the right), and the clubhead has 10° of LOFT to the ground at separation...

The EFFECTIVE LOFT on that Driver is 5°
​

Why?

Because the face is 5° closed to the plane line. It will also have 5° of hook spin.



Got it?

 

[davidmac00]

i dont understand.....

When Brian states that the face is two degrees open, he is referencing the target line. The face is two degrees open to the target line, but 4 degrees closed to the path (6 degrees in to out). I hope that this helps.

Jim S.

how the path can change the loft,if you can explain this to me i would be very grateful.

opening and closing the face CAN change the loft IF the shaft angle stays constant(e.g 90 degrees to the base line/plane line,straight up and down at separation).

BUT,if the plane line or path changes out to in or in to out,how can that possibly affect the loft of a club?

dmac

 

[davidmac00]

ok,think i see where you get your flip...

brian,
thanks for the post,i think i see it now,

when looking at club regardless of path the loft doesnt change unless shaft angle changes,but if looking from 90 degrees to plane line with clubface closed to plane line,shaft either looks layed back, or clubface closed when shaft angle 90 degrees.

thank you,
dmac

 

[Brian Manzella]

Granted...

5 degrees of hook spin is a lot, but 4 is pretty common for golfers who come to me to get "de-hooked."

 

[Damon Lucas]

Brian,

It is a one for one deal, is it?
One degree closed equals one degree less (effective) loft?

Cheers,
Damon

 

[tongzilla]

So basically, divergence between path and face at separation causes change in effective loft