James Marshall (Hogan1953)
New member
Has anybody used one of these? Looks pretty good, green lasers can apparently be seen in bright sunlight.
http://www.smartstickgolf.com/
http://www.smartstickgolf.com/
Smartstick....and why lasers are NOT the be all, and end all.
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welshdentist
New
Green lasers good for day light, but I think you can achieve something similar with a swingyde attached in a way that that yellow bar is with a couple of laser pointer torches duck taped on to a club/plastic tube
Seen some good ones on Ebay for next to nothing like these...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-in-1-Flashl...ryZ14954QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I've taped up two of these end to end and use them when I have a spare minute in the surgery
Although not sure how safe lasers are
Much cheaper than the $200
Seen some good ones on Ebay for next to nothing like these...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/3-in-1-Flashl...ryZ14954QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I've taped up two of these end to end and use them when I have a spare minute in the surgery
Although not sure how safe lasers are
Much cheaper than the $200
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swingobsessed
New
Backswing path for lasers
In my lessons with Brian, he mentioned that tracing a straight line on the backswing is not the proper path. I am wondering if Brian or anyone could tell us how to trace a proper path on the backswing so that we can practice with lasers.
Thanks.
In my lessons with Brian, he mentioned that tracing a straight line on the backswing is not the proper path. I am wondering if Brian or anyone could tell us how to trace a proper path on the backswing so that we can practice with lasers.
Thanks.
welshdentist
New
I have not long been messing about with them, for a pitch shot I seem to be able to trace a line much better taking it back slightly outside.
A idiots guide to messing with lasers would be good.
A idiots guide to messing with lasers would be good.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Lasers.
Before golfers used lasers, I used really high-end flashlights.
I practiced OVER AND OVER. I got really good at it.
Guess what?
I hit BIG OLD HOOKS!!!!
I was saved by the NEVER HOOK AGAIN pattern. Thank God.
Why did I hit hooks?
Ah.....
Listen closely...
You can trace a straight Plane line, and have a clubhead path that is quite inside-out.
No...
I didn't stutter.
No....
It isn't in "the book."
It is really simple....
Lets say you have a driver, and you are swinging on a 45° plane angle.
If you have 7° of forward lean on the shaft, and you are tracing a PERFECTLY straight plane line, and your face is 2° open, and you are using an 9.5° driver and you delivered loft is 11°, you are TOAST.
You will basically hit a duck hook that barely gets AIRBOURNE!!!
But those lasers will trace perfectly.
Before golfers used lasers, I used really high-end flashlights.
I practiced OVER AND OVER. I got really good at it.
Guess what?
I hit BIG OLD HOOKS!!!!
I was saved by the NEVER HOOK AGAIN pattern. Thank God.
Why did I hit hooks?
Ah.....
Listen closely...
You can trace a straight Plane line, and have a clubhead path that is quite inside-out.
No...
I didn't stutter.
No....
It isn't in "the book."
It is really simple....
Lets say you have a driver, and you are swinging on a 45° plane angle.
If you have 7° of forward lean on the shaft, and you are tracing a PERFECTLY straight plane line, and your face is 2° open, and you are using an 9.5° driver and you delivered loft is 11°, you are TOAST.
You will basically hit a duck hook that barely gets AIRBOURNE!!!
But those lasers will trace perfectly.
welshdentist
New
I can see this is one of those cryptic Manzella-like that leads to a massive ah-ha moment....
At the moment i'm like "Huh?" but i'm thinking.......
Brian, are you talking laser/flashlight just on the grip end, or also one pointing to the ground down the shaft angle and pointing to where the sweetspot is on the ground to trace the release?
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
!
I am saying if NASA measured you swinging the club, the sweetspot, the shaft or anything you want, ON A STRAIGHT PLANE LINE, you can hit MASSIVE HOOKS and SLICES!
Because the ball only cares about TRUE PATH, which can be QUITE DIFFERENT as per my above example.
I can see this is one of those cryptic Manzella-like that leads to a massive ah-ha moment....
At the moment i'm like "Huh?" but i'm thinking.......
Brian, are you talking laser/flashlight just on the grip end, or also one pointing to the ground down the shaft angle and pointing to where the sweetspot is on the ground to trace the release?
I am saying if NASA measured you swinging the club, the sweetspot, the shaft or anything you want, ON A STRAIGHT PLANE LINE, you can hit MASSIVE HOOKS and SLICES!
Because the ball only cares about TRUE PATH, which can be QUITE DIFFERENT as per my above example.
welshdentist
New
Does this basically mean you could trace a plane line "perfectly" but be manipulating the path in "3d space" by for example, raising or lowering the hands?
What's the definition ot "True path" I suppose I would have to ask or think about....
Are you talking about where you begin tracing the laser/flashlight plane line from halfway down?
Eg if you take the club back outside to halfway and trace a straight line from there you would be swinging possibly out to in?
Back to drilling, filling and thinking of tracing plane lines....
What's the definition ot "True path" I suppose I would have to ask or think about....
Are you talking about where you begin tracing the laser/flashlight plane line from halfway down?
Eg if you take the club back outside to halfway and trace a straight line from there you would be swinging possibly out to in?
Back to drilling, filling and thinking of tracing plane lines....
welshdentist
New
I think I just got it......
You could swing like an idiot, do everything a hooker does, and manipulate the laser/flashlight to be tracing a straight line?
By manipulate I mean releasing it weird, or moving the body forward, backward, leaving weightbehind/moving it too much or other goofy things to keep the laser on the right path, but not necessarily the club on the right path?
I remember Jim K saying you can trace a line and swing it badly...
But done with a correct action, it can lead to enlightenment
I really need some patients to arrive.......too much forum, not enough teeth....
You could swing like an idiot, do everything a hooker does, and manipulate the laser/flashlight to be tracing a straight line?
By manipulate I mean releasing it weird, or moving the body forward, backward, leaving weightbehind/moving it too much or other goofy things to keep the laser on the right path, but not necessarily the club on the right path?
I remember Jim K saying you can trace a line and swing it badly...
But done with a correct action, it can lead to enlightenment
I really need some patients to arrive.......too much forum, not enough teeth....
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swingobsessed
New
So, is there any value to working with lasers? I remember Jim saying he used them a lot. If so, how would you use them properly to not develop bad habits?
Thanks.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Well this is news to me, however the only "danger" i found in using plane lasers is you can find a way to trace a straight plane line with an off plane right shoulder. What brian talks about here, is again, news to me and i could see how it could happen but i don't know how easy someone could do that.
welshdentist
New
Hopefully it's not me from the video I sent Brian
birdie_man
New
Hmm I'm a little confused.
...
Are the 3 Impartives as infalliable and complete as is, or once was, thought?
(in the sense of: "As a bottom-line, all you really need.....and applying to every golf swing, all the time.")
Hmmmm....hello 3 Functions............?
...
Are the 3 Impartives as infalliable and complete as is, or once was, thought?
(in the sense of: "As a bottom-line, all you really need.....and applying to every golf swing, all the time.")
Hmmmm....hello 3 Functions............?
Erik_K
New
I think there is a benefit, but one must be careful. A lot of training aids (original medicus) have done more to hurt the average golfer than anything else.
Lasers certainly aren't the end all be all. You can learn to trace a straight plane line with the club, but that doesn't mean you are exhibiting clubFACE control by any stretch of the imagination. Your grip could be screwed up, but it is indeed possible to draw a straight plane line.
As Jim pointed out, you could have an off plane right shoulder. You also don't know what plane line you are tracing on your way down.
I prefer a drill that Damon Lucas suggests instead of lasers. Get to the range and address the ball. Before striking the ball, make a practice swing (take a divot) just inside where the ball is on the ground.
LOOK at the divot. Is it relatively straight? Does the divot begin just after the ball to its immediate right?
Then proceed to hit the ball. Examine the same things again. When Damon had me perform these drills last summer, the results were quite opening. You could see the drop of the club and shoulders onto the correct path on those practice swings.
Erik
Lasers certainly aren't the end all be all. You can learn to trace a straight plane line with the club, but that doesn't mean you are exhibiting clubFACE control by any stretch of the imagination. Your grip could be screwed up, but it is indeed possible to draw a straight plane line.
As Jim pointed out, you could have an off plane right shoulder. You also don't know what plane line you are tracing on your way down.
I prefer a drill that Damon Lucas suggests instead of lasers. Get to the range and address the ball. Before striking the ball, make a practice swing (take a divot) just inside where the ball is on the ground.
LOOK at the divot. Is it relatively straight? Does the divot begin just after the ball to its immediate right?
Then proceed to hit the ball. Examine the same things again. When Damon had me perform these drills last summer, the results were quite opening. You could see the drop of the club and shoulders onto the correct path on those practice swings.
Erik
KOC
New
Before golfers used lasers, I used really high-end flashlights.
I practiced OVER AND OVER. I got really good at it.
Guess what?
I hit BIG OLD HOOKS!!!!
I was saved by the NEVER HOOK AGAIN pattern. Thank God.
Why did I hit hooks?
Ah.....
Listen closely...
You can trace a straight Plane line, and have a clubhead path that is quite inside-out.
No...
I didn't stutter.
No....
It isn't in "the book."
It is really simple....
Lets say you have a driver, and you are swinging on a 45° plane angle.
If you have 7° of forward lean on the shaft, and you are tracing a PERFECTLY straight plane line, and your face is 2° open, and you are using an 9.5° driver and you delivered loft is 11°, you are TOAST.
You will basically hit a duck hook that barely gets AIRBOURNE!!!
But those lasers will trace perfectly.
Dear Brain, what is the difference in the 7th Episode Show?
I can see how this would work. Don't forget the "3-D Impact" includes down, forward, and out. In Brian's example, if you have the club leaned WAY forward at impact, the club is doing a lot more "out" then it would be if it were leaning, say, 1 or 2 degrees forward at impact. Hence, true path is maybe 7 or 8 degrees out to the right when the shaft is leaned way forward.
Did I get it right Brian? It's hard to explain without some kind of diagram. I just can see an inclined plane with the club traveling down it, and with more lean, the club is moving more out than with less lean.
Did I get it right Brian? It's hard to explain without some kind of diagram. I just can see an inclined plane with the club traveling down it, and with more lean, the club is moving more out than with less lean.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Great Question!
Imagine a toy model train set track.
Imagine an erectable model train track with each board a half inch apart, erectable in the PRECISE path the clubhead makes from the top to the finish.
Where ever the LINE is from the center of the board on the model train track on the IMPACT BOARD is, to the center of the NEXT board, is, basically, the TRUE PATH.
You then bring in a plane board, perfectly flat, and the train track would be perfectly parallel to the board—up against it, so to speak.
If the BALL is hit prior to low point THE TRUE PATH IS THEN DOWNWARD AND OUTWARD.
Ah, but here is the rub...
The CRAZY NOTION that the ball would go straight ANYWAY if this true path is say 11° inside-out is AS WRONG AS ANYTHING EVER SAID IN GOLF INSTRUCTION HISTORY!
No matter how many times you stand up and swing a putter 45° to the right, and the ball goes kinda straight...
YOU WILL STILL BE WRONG!!!
The ball can only go straight if the ball is HIT RIGHT AT LOW POINT if you are TRACING A STRAIGHT AT THE TARGET PLANE LINE, and the face is dead square!!!!!!!
What don't you get about that, KOC?
And BTW, anything I have said previously about ball flight, was wrong the day that TRACKMAN brought the D PLANE to life.
Actually, it was wrong before then too.
I am always learning...and when the Manzella Matrix Short Game Video, and The Soft Draw Pattern are released, they'll be some gasps, but everyone will be improving.
...including me.
Right on the money, and the opposite is true for upward path, which ought to keep all those HIT UP ON A DRIVER guys busy for a while.
Imagine a toy model train set track.
Each "board" is about a half inch apart.
Imagine an erectable model train track with each board a half inch apart, erectable in the PRECISE path the clubhead makes from the top to the finish.
Like Dr. Aaron Zick said, the path through the ball is for all practical purposes DEAD STRAIGHT.
Where ever the LINE is from the center of the board on the model train track on the IMPACT BOARD is, to the center of the NEXT board, is, basically, the TRUE PATH.
Get it?
You then bring in a plane board, perfectly flat, and the train track would be perfectly parallel to the board—up against it, so to speak.
If the BALL is hit prior to low point THE TRUE PATH IS THEN DOWNWARD AND OUTWARD.
No kidding, say the book literalist.
Ah, but here is the rub...
The CRAZY NOTION that the ball would go straight ANYWAY if this true path is say 11° inside-out is AS WRONG AS ANYTHING EVER SAID IN GOLF INSTRUCTION HISTORY!
No matter how many times you stand up and swing a putter 45° to the right, and the ball goes kinda straight...
YOU WILL STILL BE WRONG!!!
The D Plane, boss, the D plane!
The ball can only go straight if the ball is HIT RIGHT AT LOW POINT if you are TRACING A STRAIGHT AT THE TARGET PLANE LINE, and the face is dead square!!!!!!!
What don't you get about that, KOC?
And BTW, anything I have said previously about ball flight, was wrong the day that TRACKMAN brought the D PLANE to life.
Actually, it was wrong before then too.
I am always learning...and when the Manzella Matrix Short Game Video, and The Soft Draw Pattern are released, they'll be some gasps, but everyone will be improving.
...including me.
Right on the money, and the opposite is true for upward path, which ought to keep all those HIT UP ON A DRIVER guys busy for a while.
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