So, how hard is golf?

[birly-shirly]

Not a rhetorical question.

Seems like a near-constant undercurrent in teaching and discussion is that golf is a hard sport. I'm not sure I understand the reasons for this.

Usually the arguments take one of 3 forms:

1. The "long bat, small ball" argument. Long clubs, high clubhead speed, "successful" impact measured in fractions of an inch. I've never seen a serious attempt to compare these difficulties with those of returning a 100mph plus tennis serve, or trying to hit a moving ball with a curved stick.

2. The "talented athletes flunk at golf" argument. Yeah, yeah - Ivan Lendl, Nigel Mansell, even Charles Barkely. But come on, if this argument holds water, then retired golf pros should be cleaning up on the tennis tours and basketball leagues.

3. The "I still suck, after all this time (and money)" argument. Hmm, so does that make golf easier or harder than eating healthily or being nice to your in-laws?

I'd be happy for folk to add to these arguments. But what I'm really interested in is the question of what a "reasonable" level of golfing proficiency should be.

What's the current "average" level of golfing ability? 90-shooter?

What should that "average golfer" be capable of with decent instruction and reasonable application?

What's a reasonable level of application? Practice/play twice a week through the season?

To put my cards on the table - my gut feel is that golf is a fairly easy game. By that, I mean that the barriers to entry are low, and even poor golfers get to experience good shots on a fairly regular basis. I think that's a large part of golf's attraction, compared to other sports. Golf just seems difficult because these flashes of competence remain just flashes, and over the long term, we get dragged back to a level that more accurately reflects the talent and application that we bring to the game. Which is inevitably frustrating.

I think it's true that in golf at the highest level, it may be harder for one person to dominate than in other sports. However, I don't know whether that proves that golf is a difficult sport, or if it just proves that luck plays more of a role in tournament golf than in, say, marathon running.

I'd love to see someone more statistically adept than me look at the distribution of scoring ability across the golfing population and compare the spread of golfing success and failure with the spread in other sports. Anyone know if this has been done?

 

[dbl]

Having the golf club designed with the clubhead cantilevered off to the side causes most of the difficulty I believe. From time to time I've doodled clubs that would be far easier for beginners to hit straight and well, but of course they would be illegal.

So I guess, that doesn't help your thread does it? You want discussion about the game as it is now, right?

 

[golfdad]

i think that is a very though question to answer. it involves a huge clinical study to reach some findings that may be valid.

for those who find golf easy, here is my question: do you find it easy to maintain your current level of play, or do you find it easy to go for a higher level of play?

for instance, i think cooking eggs for the family in the weekend is not too challenging. i have got it down. but i don't think i will ever be ready to compete with others in a cooking show, with time constraints, with materials revealed at the last second.

 

[Ringer]

The better you are at it, the harder it gets.

 

[BrandonM7]

I think the implied standard can make it seem harder than it is. Could us normal recreational baseball or tennis players hit 100mph fastballs or even vaguely keep up with a tennis pro? Not a chance. But for some reason we see "par" as a reasonable expectation of a golf score at some point in our life. It really isn't unless you dedicate yourself to a great degree, and still may not be so - just like you may never be able to hit a 100mph fast ball with any consistency. Maybe if people saw 100 as a reasonable recreational golf score, more would agree with you. I agree with you - I think golf is a fairly easy game, as long as we have our expectations similar to what we'd have in other sports. I'm not very good at it, but I wouldn't be very good at any other sport if I put in the same level of practice, training, and general effort. I think 90s is better than average in golf, especially if you forced everyone to keep honest score.

 

[birly-shirly]

dbl - I guess that fits right in as an "equipment ill-adapted to its purpose" type argument. It's a possible reason, sure enough, but also applies to hockey and similar sports (but not lacrosse or tennis - although I remember an asymmetrical tennis racquet years ago! )

golfdad - fair points. not sure it's necessarily a clinical study that's needed though. couldn't you derive some useful conclusions from handicap data as a proxy for the spread of talent/ability and compare the distribution to, say, race times? Partly though, my point is that in the absence of data to prove it, people nevertheless seem to have no difficulty in making the assertion that golf is difficult.

 

[birly-shirly]

The better you are at it, the harder it gets.

Ringer - do you mean, relative to the competition or in absolute terms? I agree with the former, in that you find yourself competing against dedicated and talented athletes who are going to make you work hard for any advantage.

Not sure I agree with the latter, except in the limited and obvious sense that the law of diminishing returns sets in and that as you get better, it gets harder to find additional improvement. On the other hand, I would say that better players are also more consistent players and have better "toolkits" for maintaining their game - which is a big advantage and one sense in which the game becomes easier.

I know you can play, and I don't know whether you ever really struggled with the game. But do you really think that the game seems more difficult to you than it must do to the beginner who doesn't know from one shot to the next whether he's even going to make contact with the ball, and has no idea why his ball does what it does?

I'm nothing special as a player - but I think golf is much easier for me now than it was when I was learning as a kid.

 

[Waynkie Doodle]

I tend to be inclined to agree with Ringer on this one. Most of the time I compare myself to myself, always trying to shoot the lowest score possible even if the guy I'm playing with is in the process of shooting a 125 or a 65. Golf has gotten more difficult as I have gotten better because there seems to be a plateau effect where I get better to a point and then I don't improve for a while, then one day I just start getting better again. This "plateau" also seems to get longer and longer each time I get there. It becomes more and more difficult for me to pick out things that are wrong with my swing so I end up having to seek out a golf pro for some help, unlike back when I could notice something just by watching someone else swing a golf club and shave 7 strokes off my entire game in a week. I don't think the game itself is any harder but perhaps improving at it, (which is the goal of everyone here I would assume) becomes more and more difficult as you play more golf.

 

[golfdad]

golfdad - fair points. not sure it's necessarily a clinical study that's needed though. couldn't you derive some useful conclusions from handicap data as a proxy for the spread of talent/ability and compare the distribution to, say, race times? Partly though, my point is that in the absence of data to prove it, people nevertheless seem to have no difficulty in making the assertion that golf is difficult.

on one hand, birly, we can take opinions from participants in, say, 2 sports, golf vs another and go from there. for instance, i don't know if michael jordon had ever openly shared his view on comparing basketball at the highest level (arguably) vs his level of golf. since his physical condition and mental condition should not be that big a factor, plus his strong desire to get better, i would think he is in the position to shed some light on this topic. how tough is golf relatively speaking and what is holding him back... ( i think if any one of your teachers here can help him get into the champions tour, he will be happy to part from him 10 mil, haha.)

on the other hand, if we want to derive generalization, sport vs sport, then i think to be credible studies must be done. well designed and with large sample. because we are comparing apple vs orange here already, we have to set it up in a more meaningful manner. of course, the most ideal way is to amass a large number of twins and send one sibling to a high caliber golf camp and the other to a basketball camp. years later, we see how they compare...what percentage reach what level,,,what kind of bell curve,,,

personally, i think golf is one of the toughest endeavors because it has an elusive mix of physical and mental and emotional elements.

 

[Ringer]

There is a generally accepted (although I don't know of any scientific data) notion that we get better in spurts and then plateau. For example, for a 35 handicap golfer, to jump to 25 can happen in a relatively short amount of time with some training but then will hold that handicap for several months or a year. But for a 10 handicap golfer to go to 0 takes years and only improves in 1 or 2 strokes at a time. There are exceptions of course, but as a general rule it seems to hold true.

The better you get at the game, the harder it is to get better at the game.

 

[spktho]

There is a generally accepted (although I don't know of any scientific data) notion that we get better in spurts and then plateau. For example, for a 35 handicap golfer, to jump to 25 can happen in a relatively short amount of time with some training but then will hold that handicap for several months or a year. But for a 10 handicap golfer to go to 0 takes years and only improves in 1 or 2 strokes at a time. There are exceptions of course, but as a general rule it seems to hold true.

The better you get at the game, the harder it is to get better at the game.

True here. Went from 90's to 80's in about 6 months. Still chipping away at that 10 for about the last 5 years.

 

[leon]

What about the fact that in golf we have to play many different types of shot, off different surfaces and with different clubs. Personally I think that adds an extra level of difficulty, particularly in regards to putting.

Then again, I really suck at putting

 

[birly-shirly]

The better you get at the game, the harder it is to get better at the game.

I agree - but isn't that true of most, if not all, sports?

 

[golfdad]

i think ringer is correct in his observation that whereas it takes some effort to reach a level of being "okay", it takes much more to go beyond that.

however, when comparing this phenom with other sports, i wonder if we will see a similar pattern.

knowing that to go from okay to great in tennis, swimming, soccer, golf, etc means a very steep learning curve ahead, the question is: how steep is each curve comparatively?

 

[dbl]

Why do people think, when seeing pros play 7200 yard course and hitting some very high quality shots, that "it must be easy" or "I should be able to do that."? I certainly don't think that when seeing 200mph car races.

Maybe people are just giant ego maniacs! And it would seem many have grandiose visions of their abilities.

And then coupled with the many who have "low frustration tolerance" and you get.. "golf is difficult." Golf is easy for most people to break 120, but it's not easy for most to break 80 (and that's on average length resort or muni courses).

It's something about unrealistic expectations.

 

[SteveT]

A old PGA survey of the world's 50 million golfers determined that 90% of all golfers worldwide can't break 100 ... which means that only 5 million can break 100 ...!!!

I suspect that 90% of that 5 million can't break 90 .. which leaves 500,000 who can play in the 80s and less ... and that's for the entire planet ...!!!!

There are more clowns per acre (hectare) on the golf courses than anywhere else in the world.

 

[jenhaoyen]

A old PGA survey of the world's 50 million golfers determined that 90% of all golfers worldwide can't break 100 ... which means that only 5 million can break 100 ...!!!

I suspect that 90% of that 5 million can't break 90 .. which leaves 500,000 who can play in the 80s and less ... and that's for the entire planet ...!!!!

There are more clowns per acre (hectare) on the golf courses than anywhere else in the world.

that's not true...

most people I know (amateure players) they shoot under 90 if not 85.

Unless u are a new golfer...i don't see why you would shoot over 90 lol

 

[SteveT]

that's not true...

most people I know (amateure players) they shoot under 90 if not 85.

Unless u are a new golfer...i don't see why you would shoot over 90 lol

It be true .... because golf is the sport of last resort for most recreational players.

The world is a big place and I doubt you know 50 million people who play golf.

I also suspect that most who claim they shoot in the 90's are cheating too..!!!

 

[jenhaoyen]

It be true .... because golf is the sport of last resort for most recreational players.

The world is a big place and I doubt you know 50 million people who play golf.

I also suspect that most who claim they shoot in the 90's are cheating too..!!!

seriously Steve, it's not that hard to shoot in the 90's. On my worst days I shoot 91-92.

and I can't even putt!!!

well there might be a couple of times i shot 98....lol

 

[aaron_lohan]

Not a rhetorical question.

Seems like a near-constant undercurrent in teaching and discussion is that golf is a hard sport. I'm not sure I understand the reasons for this.

Usually the arguments take one of 3 forms:

1. The "long bat, small ball" argument. Long clubs, high clubhead speed, "successful" impact measured in fractions of an inch. I've never seen a serious attempt to compare these difficulties with those of returning a 100mph plus tennis serve, or trying to hit a moving ball with a curved stick.

2. The "talented athletes flunk at golf" argument. Yeah, yeah - Ivan Lendl, Nigel Mansell, even Charles Barkely. But come on, if this argument holds water, then retired golf pros should be cleaning up on the tennis tours and basketball leagues.

3. The "I still suck, after all this time (and money)" argument. Hmm, so does that make golf easier or harder than eating healthily or being nice to your in-laws?

I'd be happy for folk to add to these arguments. But what I'm really interested in is the question of what a "reasonable" level of golfing proficiency should be.

What's the current "average" level of golfing ability? 90-shooter?

What should that "average golfer" be capable of with decent instruction and reasonable application?

What's a reasonable level of application? Practice/play twice a week through the season?

To put my cards on the table - my gut feel is that golf is a fairly easy game. By that, I mean that the barriers to entry are low, and even poor golfers get to experience good shots on a fairly regular basis. I think that's a large part of golf's attraction, compared to other sports. Golf just seems difficult because these flashes of competence remain just flashes, and over the long term, we get dragged back to a level that more accurately reflects the talent and application that we bring to the game. Which is inevitably frustrating.

I think it's true that in golf at the highest level, it may be harder for one person to dominate than in other sports. However, I don't know whether that proves that golf is a difficult sport, or if it just proves that luck plays more of a role in tournament golf than in, say, marathon running.

I'd love to see someone more statistically adept than me look at the distribution of scoring ability across the golfing population and compare the spread of golfing success and failure with the spread in other sports. Anyone know if this has been done?

I dont know how you can say Ivan Lendl, Nigel Mansell sucked at golf they were scratch or better by definition that would put them in the top 1-2% of the golfing population, after doing their own sport for 20-30 years do you expect them to be able to retrain in a completely different sport and become tour pros?

What's the current "average" level of golfing ability? 90-shooter?
The average score for a golfer is 97


What should that "average golfer" be capable of with decent instruction and reasonable application?
Low 80s high 70s

What's a reasonable level of application? Practice/play twice a week through the season?
More than that, you have to remember that although a round of golf takes hours to complete your only spending a small fraction of that time actually hitting the ball, so a couple of rounds is actually not much practice.

I'd love to see someone more statistically adept than me look at the distribution of scoring ability across the golfing population and compare the spread of golfing success and failure with the spread in other sports. Anyone know if this has been done?
-impossible to tell because golf is such an objective sport- you are as good as what scores you shoot and other sports are far more subjective and difficult to measure ability. Hundreds of millions play football but very few play at the highest level, you can argue that its a harder sport.