So, how hard is golf?

[SteveT]

seriously Steve, it's not that hard to shoot in the 90's. On my worst days I shoot 91-92.

and I can't even putt!!!

well there might be a couple of times i shot 98....lol

If most of the world's 'golfers' didn't carry a driver and were able to hit 150 yards (137 meters) straight, they could most likely break 100. A "300 yard" drive would just be two straight 150 yard pops ... and no lost balls!!!

Anybody who can't break 100 with a regular set of golf clubs should only carry clubs up to a 5-iron and learn to hit those clubs ... and stay off courses that require 160 yard carry over water ..!!!!

I've played a full course in the 90's carrying only a 7-iron, and two wedges and no putter ... just putting with the edge of the lob wedge ....!!!!

 

[aaron_lohan]

I agree - but isn't that true of most, if not all, sports?

Very true, in my sport powerlifting the rate of improvement in the poundages i lifted was rapid at the begining now its maybe 10-15kg a year compared to 70-80kg in my first 2 years.

 

[dbl]

seriously Steve, it's not that hard to shoot in the 90's. On my worst days I shoot 91-92.

and I can't even putt!!!

well there might be a couple of times i shot 98....lol

Are you saying it's not hard for folks to shoot in the 80's or the 90's?

I play some with a couple of guys who are studious and coordinated, but handicaps of 17-19 and....an occasional 85 is produced but 90-104 is much more the common range, like 90% of the time. By the way, they play by the rules with regard to stroke and distance penalties. They are not happy with their level of scoring and want to be regularly in the 80's and to threaten the 70's.

By the way, I've heard one compliment of some method which I think was Natural Golf was that it could take someone shooting in the 120's and get them down to breaking 100. There are a lot of people at higher scoring plateaus!

 

[Festus]

Steve is probably right about most of the people who play golf don't break 100.

There's a par 3 about 20 yards from the practice green where I go. It's maybe 125 yards from the whites with no hazard, front of the green is open, bunker complex left only. Basically a pitch and putt hole. On any given Saturday or Sunday morning - prime weekend warrior time - maybe one or two guys every 2 foursomes hit that green. Most are short right with some grounders thrown in and even the odd whiff. One guy even hit the top of the ball, it went straight up and then spun BACKWARDS. Beats me how that happened!

Anyways, most people who play golf are not "golfers" who are actively trying to improve but rather out there with their buddies having a good time. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Good grief, I still see guys showing up with WOOD woods. So if the criteria to be considered is someone who plays at least once a year or two, there's a vast majority in that population who ain't breaking 100 on their best day.

 

[birly-shirly]

I dont know how you can say Ivan Lendl, Nigel Mansell sucked at golf they were scratch or better by definition that would put them in the top 1-2% of the golfing population, after doing their own sport for 20-30 years do you expect them to be able to retrain in a completely different sport and become tour pros?

What's the current "average" level of golfing ability? 90-shooter?
The average score for a golfer is 97


What should that "average golfer" be capable of with decent instruction and reasonable application?
Low 80s high 70s

What's a reasonable level of application? Practice/play twice a week through the season?
More than that, you have to remember that although a round of golf takes hours to complete your only spending a small fraction of that time actually hitting the ball, so a couple of rounds is actually not much practice.

I'd love to see someone more statistically adept than me look at the distribution of scoring ability across the golfing population and compare the spread of golfing success and failure with the spread in other sports. Anyone know if this has been done?
-impossible to tell because golf is such an objective sport- you are as good as what scores you shoot and other sports are far more subjective and difficult to measure ability. Hundreds of millions play football but very few play at the highest level, you can argue that its a harder sport.

Aaron - sorry if I wasn't clear. The Lendl/Mansell thing was just me trying to characterise/caricature the sort of argument that I hear put forward for golf being tougher than tennis and or motor racing. I think there's a rich heritage of smugness in golf that these prize athletes fall short of their goals or expectations in golf. I don't share it though. Lendl and Mansell both set their goals extremely high, and as you say, are damned fine players in their own right.

You're right of course about comparing golf and football. Partly, I started this thread as a reaction to my experience as a recreational runner. I train far harder as a runner (just through the opportunity to run in a lunch hour) than I could ever practice at golf. Statistically, I'm a better than average golfer (which as some of the stories on this thread make clear, is a pretty modest claim). I don't think anyone in their right mind would envy me my running performance. I suspect that a lot of average golfers, encouraged by a lot of average teaching, have unrealistic expectations of what is possible.

 

[aaron_lohan]

I suspect that a lot of average golfers, encouraged by a lot of average teaching, have unrealistic expectations of what is possible.

Thats so true, people expect to hit it good every time, i played with my uncle who plays maybe 3 times a year and has no handicap, after 6 holes he was only about 5 over but he thought he was playing bad. Poor teaching is why most golfers dont play to a semi decent level, ive seen golfers of average talent make good improvements with good coaching.

 

[HowardK]

point taken....but why??

what do you feel golf instructors can do to become better coaches??

also another point....maybe the good instructors charge o much for people to pay

ie....if Brian charges 200 per hour, and i get 1600 a month social security..as much

as i may want a lesson with him..i CAN'T afford it.....he might be the best..but if i can't pay

his price..NO lesson.........so options are limited...pay alot less and learn a lot less

NOT IN ALL CASES...BUT QUITE A FEW......... I have no idea but i would tend to think that

people who do take lessons from Brian don't shoot near 100 OR...they do shoot 100

but have plenty of money.............but then again that is my opinion.....

 

[jpeck]

Very true, in my sport powerlifting the rate of improvement in the poundages i lifted was rapid at the begining now its maybe 10-15kg a year compared to 70-80kg in my first 2 years.

It seems a sport like powerlifting sees us come close to the limit of our natural ability quite quickly. There are a lot of behind the scenes things you can do to improve your lifts, such as nutrition and the study of form (science). Maybe the supersuit is the equivalent to a Ti driver? Anyway, when you are new to the sport you get better quickly, then progress comes in smaller increments.

Compared to powerlifting, it seems to me golf has more 'things' (less than full swing) you can do to improve your score, and these can make a big difference. However, when I researched sport twenty years ago, what I found out surprised me. If you want to reach your potential in a sport you should own all the moves to a high standard before you are 18 years old. After that, it should be fine tuning and conditioning.

Take up a sport past 18, and you will never be as good as you would have been if you had started young.

If you take up golf later in life, and you want to maximise your skill, you'll need to get some lessons. Play or practice four times per week, concentrate on the short game, and make sure your equipment fits you.

And if you can't hit your driver on the fairway, don't use it.

 

[ej20]

Another thought on why golf is so difficult.It is the only sport in the world where we change the weapon in our hands for almost every shot.There is a huge difference between a driver and a wedge.

Imagine if tennis players had to change from a wooden racquet to a modern racquet during a ralley?It would drive even Federer nuts.

 

[birly-shirly]

Another thought on why golf is so difficult.It is the only sport in the world where we change the weapon in our hands for almost every shot.There is a huge difference between a driver and a wedge.

Imagine if tennis players had to change from a wooden racquet to a modern racquet during a ralley?It would drive even Federer nuts.

That's true - but remember that golf started with only a handful, or less, of clubs and that people carry 14 to make the game easier, not harder. To an extent, you change club rather than technique.

A better analogy would be for Federer to choose 1 racquet optimised for a full-bore first serve, another racquet for a kicking second-serve, one for ground strokes, another for drop-shots and so on...Not very practical obviously, but you know what I'm saying.

 

[magic43]

IMO, the problem with golf is that we, as a rule, do not learn the game correctly. Most beginners grab the driver and want to see how hard they can hit it. I know that is how I started. Let me ask the teachers/instructors here, how many of you teach the game to beginners from green to tee? I.e., learning to get the ball in the hole with the short game to minimize strokes and post better scores. Wouldn't that be a more logical approach rather than trying to get someone to learn to swing a club properly at 100 mph with a driver? Had an old Tour player tell me that 90% of the swing can be learned with a wedge swinging from 9 to 3 and achieving good impact and the rest was just an extension of that. Don't know how true that is, but is sure sound logical to me.
Just a thought....

 

[ej20]

That's true - but remember that golf started with only a handful, or less, of clubs and that people carry 14 to make the game easier, not harder. To an extent, you change club rather than technique.

A better analogy would be for Federer to choose 1 racquet optimised for a full-bore first serve, another racquet for a kicking second-serve, one for ground strokes, another for drop-shots and so on...Not very practical obviously, but you know what I'm saying.

When you go from driver to wedge unfortunately the technique changes along with it.The extra length of the driver makes the swing flatter than a wedge.Not to mention what we now know about the D-plane.We need to swing more to the right with the driver and more to the left with a wedge to hit them both straight.No wonder there has not been many players who were great throughout the bag.

I would like to see tennis players play with 2 different raquets.A wooden one with a small head and an oversize modern one but with an extra long shaft and make them alternate games with each raquet.Then they will know what it's like to play golf.

 

[SteveT]

When you go from driver to wedge unfortunately the technique changes along with it.The extra length of the driver makes the swing flatter than a wedge.Not to mention what we now know about the D-plane.We need to swing more to the right with the driver and more to the left with a wedge to hit them both straight. No wonder there has not been many players who were great throughout the bag.

You got that right ... and I read this in an old 'how-to' book: "Taller golfers with steeper swings are good with their short irons, while shorter golfers with flatter swings are good with their driver and long clubs." Arnold Palmer wrote that he only felt comfortable with his driver at age 29..!!

This rings so true with me being tall and with a steep plane/path swing. From 150 yards in I'm a tour pro .. but from 160 yards out I'm bogey golfer. I will never conquer the driver. Golf is cruel to those who start the game late in life.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Golf is hard because the margin for error is so small and the punishment for making error is so huge. In baseball, we can be off and usually we are off, and we may swing and whiff or hit a foul ball and live to see another day. And if we are successful 30% of the time, we are an All-Star. In golf, if you're successful 30% of the time you're a hacker. If you miss badly, your ball will end up in the lake or OB or whatever.

According to Trackman, if you miss the sweetspot by 1 dimple with a driver hit 250 yards long, the ball will travel 10 yards off line.






3JACK