some observations draw vs fade

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Erik_K

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In my quest to improve my iron play, I decided, this season, to pick a ball flight and then base my thoughts, swing rehearsal, grip, drills, practice, etc around that flight.

In general I tend to overcook the draw. My biggest miss is a pull that ends up turning into a giant hook.

In hitting the draw here some things I notice:

Ball is closer to the middle of my stance

I am lined up to the right, but the face is aligned more at the target - this helps me make sure the face is left of the path.

I am tilted to the right more for a draw

More of an emphasis on keeping my head back, and keeping some axis tilt through the shot

A strong grip

Be sure to swing out to the right a little bit

*********

After devoting nearly the entire golf season to employing this flight, I have to confess it feels rather uncomfortable. Especially from the set up and alignment perspective.

Today, I hit about 5-10 balls with the draw 'thoughts.' I hit a few fat, hung a few out to the right and the rest started right but curved way too much to the left.

For the hell of it I tried making a cut swing. I lined up open, basically took the same grip, and made sure the face pointed at the target. I swung left. I felt like I could hit the ball a lot harder. Lining open also helped me turn through the shoot more freely. Since I tend to have more of a steep downswing, maybe the Fade is a better fit? I did hit a few towering fades that curved to the right and fell right on the pin. I only a hit a few shots and one was a pull, but since since the face wasn't pointed to the left all that much (if at all) the ball went relatively straight. I would say this is much more playable miss.

I am just wondering as someone who sort of prefers an open stance with a ball position that is more forward, is the fade a better choice? It just feels a little more comfortable, especially from an alignment standpoint. Maybe I am missing something with hitting the draw. But it just feels like I need to swing WAY out to right field to hit a playable right to left shot.

Erik
 
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Erik_K

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The place was empty on a drizzly, but cool, Sunday afternoon.

I usually drop my left foot back (opposite of dropping my right foot back) and turn my left foot out just a tad.

Erik
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Knowing you it depends if it was large "band-aid" fade that incorporates some of your old stuff that you're trying to get rid of or just a normal fade swing. If it was more the latter, no bigge. I've always found that golfers always, ALWAYS, have some fault they will fight FOREVER. You will never solve it. Be honest with yourself and you'll know immediately what it is.

Me? Open clubface & bad hips. Just who i am. However knowing that allows me to adjust for it and play good golf.
 
Knowing you it depends if it was large "band-aid" fade that incorporates some of your old stuff that you're trying to get rid of or just a normal fade swing. If it was more the latter, no bigge. I've always found that golfers always, ALWAYS, have some fault they will fight FOREVER. You will never solve it. Be honest with yourself and you'll know immediately what it is.

Me? Open clubface & bad hips. Just who i am. However knowing that allows me to adjust for it and play good golf.

Great post from an instructor. In order to see things this way, the teacher has to be honest enough with himself to know that, realistically, some things in the swing are part of the golfer's DNA, and the best thing is to allow for it.

How can you figure out what things are a part of your swing DNA? If it's trial and error, what are you looking for as you go through the process? Knowing that would save a ton of golfers (hackers and pros alike) a lot of wasted time and effort, wouldn't it?

This seems like common sense, given that every individual is different, and learn their swings with different bodies under different circumstances. Yet you seldom hear this subject talked about, at least not in mainstream golf instruction.
 
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Erik_K

New
Knowing you it depends if it was large "band-aid" fade that incorporates some of your old stuff that you're trying to get rid of or just a normal fade swing. If it was more the latter, no bigge. I've always found that golfers always, ALWAYS, have some fault they will fight FOREVER. You will never solve it. Be honest with yourself and you'll know immediately what it is.

Me? Open clubface & bad hips. Just who i am. However knowing that allows me to adjust for it and play good golf.

My last session at the range was hardly a dedicated practice outing. It was just an observation on primarily how I felt while addressing the ball. I also like the feeling of being able to swing left, which seems to be something I do naturally. But as Jim pointed out, I have my faults and maybe a fade pattern is a better 'fit' for those faults (mostly notably a steep DS and getting on my toes & also have open face issues too).

For that moment, and it was brief mind you, I just felt more confident and comfortable over the ball. Less thinking and more of a 'go at it' mind set.

Erik
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
My last session at the range was hardly a dedicated practice outing. It was just an observation on primarily how I felt while addressing the ball. I also like the feeling of being able to swing left, which seems to be something I do naturally. But as Jim pointed out, I have my faults and maybe a fade pattern is a better 'fit' for those faults (mostly notably a steep DS and getting on my toes & also have open face issues too).

For that moment, and it was brief mind you, I just felt more confident and comfortable over the ball. Less thinking and more of a 'go at it' mind set.

Erik

Swinging more left tends to allow that because you aren't afraid of the snapper and personally i play better when i'm straight to fade but do try to draw the big stick. Maybe take some video when you are making that swing and send it to me. Again, similar to my post above, i do play better golf when i'm hitting more of a fade.
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
How can you figure out what things are a part of your swing DNA? If it's trial and error, what are you looking for as you go through the process? Knowing that would save a ton of golfers (hackers and pros alike) a lot of wasted time and effort, wouldn't it?

I think once your game "matures" to the point where you feel like it's going to take A LOT of work to get better that you may or may not have time to do you should know your swing by then. I'd also say if you've taken a fair amount of lessons most likely, even if it was from different people, you may notice what they are trying to get you to do (even if their method is different) is similar.
 
I think once your game "matures" to the point where you feel like it's going to take A LOT of work to get better that you may or may not have time to do you should know your swing by then. I'd also say if you've taken a fair amount of lessons most likely, even if it was from different people, you may notice what they are trying to get you to do (even if their method is different) is similar.

That makes sense. Basically, you'll see a pattern emerge if you put in enough time, and pay close enough attention to what's going on?
 

Erik_K

New
Swinging more left tends to allow that because you aren't afraid of the snapper and personally i play better when i'm straight to fade but do try to draw the big stick. Maybe take some video when you are making that swing and send it to me. Again, similar to my post above, i do play better golf when i'm hitting more of a fade.

I'd also like to hit the draw with the driver. Hit up on the ball and swing to the right a little. I think this is ideal combo - fades with the irons and draws with the 3W and driver off the tee.

BOOOOOMMMMM!!! (that's my Jack Hamm impersonation)
 
I'd also like to hit the draw with the driver. Hit up on the ball and swing to the right a little. I think this is ideal combo - fades with the irons and draws with the 3W and driver off the tee.

BOOOOOMMMMM!!! (that's my Jack Hamm impersonation)

I think his infomercials said POWWW! ;-)
 
Swinging more left tends to allow that because you aren't afraid of the snapper and personally i play better when i'm straight to fade but do try to draw the big stick. Maybe take some video when you are making that swing and send it to me. Again, similar to my post above, i do play better golf when i'm hitting more of a fade.

Jim - why do you try to draw it off the tee?
 
The problem arises because there's more involved than simply changing path. As soon as you develop a path or a plane, you develop a release point compatible with it. The reason most struggle with a change is the release point becomes ingrained. Over the toppers changing to inside are going to hit some fat shots, count on it. The negative feedback sends then back out over it.
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
The problem arises because there's more involved than simply changing path. As soon as you develop a path or a plane, you develop a release point compatible with it. The reason most struggle with a change is the release point becomes ingrained. Over the toppers changing to inside are going to hit some fat shots, count on it. The negative feedback sends then back out over it.

This is a great point, so for someone like me how much work do i want to do to re-create that? For me, i'd rather just stay where i'm at.
 
Strong Grip

Strong Grip with a fade works well - Trevino, etc. - because you can only open the blade so much more - you've limited the range of motion. Likewise - you'd be more consistent trying to hit draws with a weaker grip - it can only close so much.

Strong Grip and drawing the ball - you are asking for trouble.
 
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