Kevin -
Does standing up in the downswing (i.e., goat humping) make it easier for the arms to swing down the body? It seems to me that it would make it easier the more erect the player in the downswing purely from a speed standpoint.
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- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Kevin -
Does standing up in the downswing (i.e., goat humping) make it easier for the arms to swing down the body? It seems to me that it would make it easier the more erect the player in the downswing purely from a speed standpoint.
Kevin Shields
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Sorry but I don't see that connection. How can standing up make it easier for the arms to swing down the across the body??
GaryRead
New
Perhaps the standing up allows the body to get closer to arms that have failed to travel correctly. I don't agree it makes it easier. But I can see the body reacting to out if positions arms through compensating in this manner. Ie if the arms can't lower against the body, the body will have to rise up to fulfills the same role.
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Perhaps I just didn't quite get why you were saying. I look at goat humping as almost always a negative which often blocks a good arm swing.
Dear Kevin, GaryRead, cdwlaw223, et al,
Let me try to add a little 'dynamic balance' science to this area as I believe it to be very significant in affecting a golfers best/optimum swing.
During the down swing, and most obvious from the kinematic sequence and avatar position traces of both the AMM and MATT's systems, the maximum angular velocities of the arms and upper torso occur generally 0.100 seconds or so before impact and the resultant centripetal forces total over 100 pounds in mostly a downward, but towards the ball direction.
Reviewing medical research papers led me to the conclusion that the normal strength of a body to hold the approximate 30 degree bent over torso FLEXION angle at set-up and early down swing is LESS than half of these total forces developed centripetally, therefore the bodies involuntary/reflex actions for safety and survival will take over as top priorities. IMO, the result will be , as Brian has said, 'humpin' somthin', maybe a goat.
Further, and now back to physics and basic body strength and torque generating capabilities,, the angular velocity PROFILE of the left arm has a very significant relationship to the club head velocity at impact, and IMO, probably THE most significant effect. This lead arm velocity profile, WITHOUT doubt, is most affected by the torque generating capability of the lead should complex, which in turn can be significantly affected by the lead upper arms proximity to the chest, the pectoral muscle, etc. Finally, the ranges of motion, and torque generating capabilities of this lead arm shoulder/upper arm 'system' are UNIQUE to each golfer, and strong functions of the 'gamma' rotational position of the upper arm especially around the time of maximum angular velocity and later.
Sorry this is so complex to understand, but it is easy to improve, and once again comes down to preparing for and developing better dynamic balance and stability margin. This time however, BBKIB and doing this as part of the setup, and especially flexing/bending both knees very slightly allows most golfers to 'absorb' the DESTABILIZING upper torso and arm centripetal forces noted above without upper body EXTENSION (humpin'), but with the much stronger and reflex/shock absorbing strength of the legs and lower body.
As an old comic strip by 'Ripley' would say, "Believe it or Not", but as I would beg you, "Try it, ( I believe) you'll Like it". Remember, on this site many posts ago, I promised I would get into the dynamic balance and rhythm of parts other than the lower body, so here it is.
I hope this makes some sense to you.
Happy New Year, and good health to all,
Sincerely,
art
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GaryRead
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Happy new year to everyone!
Why can I make a full speed practice swing without early back extension and not take that to a swing with the intent to hit the ball?
This reaction to the intent to hit the ball and the seemingly uncontrollable knee jerk reaction that occurs with most golfers that perform a practice swing a million miles away from there actual swing has me perplexed.
Why can I make a full speed practice swing without early back extension and not take that to a swing with the intent to hit the ball?
This reaction to the intent to hit the ball and the seemingly uncontrollable knee jerk reaction that occurs with most golfers that perform a practice swing a million miles away from there actual swing has me perplexed.
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Dear GaryRead,
I have been retired for 11 years this month, but would have bet my last pay check that videos or better yet, AMM/TPI, of MATT's from both of your swings would show a VERY DIFFERENT transition between the two swings. My guess without having the benefit of real data would be that when swinging at the ball, your upper body rotates earlier, developing a more severe dynamic imbalance later in the swing, requiring the reflex extension.
Try closing your eyes while hitting a ball and compare the 'three' videos hopefully in slow motion, and don't forget to go frame by frame AND count to see that your tempo (and swing speed) is truly the same for all three. Also, you may even be able to 'feel' the additional tension/tightness swinging at the ball that I bet you DO NOT feel during the practice swing.
Please let us know the results.
Regards,
art
Which leads to the question, when to and when not to?
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