Steeper plane for more speed?
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Brian Manzella
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chrisfx811
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I had a strange moment today thinking about this.
Lately my shoulders have been turning real flat, lead shoulder sometimes higher than rear at the top of backswing, and my arms were very flat as well.
My driver & 3w swings have been all over the map, and like the BPS thread mentions, wreaking havoc on my game/psyche. Push-slices & blocks with some smothered pull hooks sprinkled in every now and then.
While watching the Yankees/Red Sox game tonight, I started thinking about a baseball players stance, which led to me thinking about Brian's Johnny U comments, which also reminded me of the video of Brian's student, Adam, in the Pebble Beach thread. Adam has what some might term a flying or high right elbow.
I start fiddling with this in my living room, and it feels good, and it feels fast.
I grab 3 balls and head out to the field outside my apartment.
I hit 3 high, piercing bullets with a 7i, lose all 3 balls, and walked in the house excited as all get out.
I'll be at the range tomorrow, for the first time in a while, checking this out some more.
Lately my shoulders have been turning real flat, lead shoulder sometimes higher than rear at the top of backswing, and my arms were very flat as well.
My driver & 3w swings have been all over the map, and like the BPS thread mentions, wreaking havoc on my game/psyche. Push-slices & blocks with some smothered pull hooks sprinkled in every now and then.
While watching the Yankees/Red Sox game tonight, I started thinking about a baseball players stance, which led to me thinking about Brian's Johnny U comments, which also reminded me of the video of Brian's student, Adam, in the Pebble Beach thread. Adam has what some might term a flying or high right elbow.
I start fiddling with this in my living room, and it feels good, and it feels fast.
I grab 3 balls and head out to the field outside my apartment.
I hit 3 high, piercing bullets with a 7i, lose all 3 balls, and walked in the house excited as all get out.
I'll be at the range tomorrow, for the first time in a while, checking this out some more.
tongzilla
New
By "right arm throwing" I suppose you mean a higher right elbow position, not necessarily a flying right elbow position. Sorry, not the biggest football fan out there.
"Extra gravity" - is that meant to be scientific?
birdie_man
New
More about the Johnny U position please.
I have been a victim of POP teaching culture for years and have been deathly afraid of the "flying elbow". The consequence? Years of keepin the right elobow TUCKED into my side and a crappy, shallow swing plane that later developed into powerless, divotless, flipper swing. It has caused me to have no UP in my swing. This is something I need to work on.
Chris, let me know how this latest revelation has worked for you. Hope it goes well.
I have been a victim of POP teaching culture for years and have been deathly afraid of the "flying elbow". The consequence? Years of keepin the right elobow TUCKED into my side and a crappy, shallow swing plane that later developed into powerless, divotless, flipper swing. It has caused me to have no UP in my swing. This is something I need to work on.
Chris, let me know how this latest revelation has worked for you. Hope it goes well.
Chris,
I can confirm your observations...my shoulder turn has gradually got flatter over the years....with similar shot patterns to the ones you noticed, PLUS a big loss of distance....
Confused me for a while.....when I did make good contact the ball was much shorter than expected....
As soon as i worked on getting more tilt on my shoulders in the backswing (and driving the right shoulder DOWN and under on the downswing), bingo, all my old distance came back..
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Chris,
I can confirm your observations...my shoulder turn has gradually got flatter over the years....with similar shot patterns to the ones you noticed, PLUS a big loss of distance....
Confused me for a while.....when I did make good contact the ball was much shorter than expected....
As soon as i worked on getting more tilt on my shoulders in the backswing (and driving the right shoulder DOWN and under on the downswing), bingo, all my old distance came back..
Your resurgence of distance has more than just the elbow position.
curtisj76
New
Hmmm, interesting topic. This summer I was really hitting it well when I was using a steeper backswing. I had to so the hooks would go away. Distance was great. Sadly, I'll have to wait several months to look into further. Pardon me while I go cry myself to bed. My wife just bought me a binkie so I should be ok.
ColinMB
New
I'll have to experiment with this at the range tonight... I don't know.
I have been trying to find power for a while now without losing too much accuracy. I've tried everything... 90% of training aids are pure bull IMHO. 90% of 'swing power secrets' are pure bull for me as well.
I will say this... for a while I will never forget a month of driving I had after I first started NSA 2.0. For a while, I could get VERY VERY aggressive with my downswing using Brian's method of making sure the club face was closed. I don't know why, but a few things stuck out: 1- close that face, 2 - hit the inside of the ball 3- Keep my right shoulder DOWN on the down swing.
That's all I thought about and the results were like a light switch. I stopped though because my irons became grotesque in every sense of the word. It was almost like a unique 'driver only' swing. It was a very cool combination of swing thoughts that freed my body to REALLY go hard at the ball. It was refreshing and I remember even my instructor was totally blown away by straight pure power I seemed to have stumbled on (I never told him where it came from for fear of being chastised!)
I have never regained NEAR that power, but for a month I hit it very deep. Now it's gone... I mean really gone (I am back to hitting 260ish in this weather maybe that's a factor?). So maybe the secret somewhere in the shoulders. I'm by nature a very slow tempo type swinger. It sucks being out driven again by guys who don't look like they could beat my mom in an arm wrestle.
Right now all I do is try to stand tall... try not to sway (dead right slice if I do) and do NOTHING with my shoulders till my arms are at my hips (sick to death of OTT).
I have been trying to find power for a while now without losing too much accuracy. I've tried everything... 90% of training aids are pure bull IMHO. 90% of 'swing power secrets' are pure bull for me as well.
I will say this... for a while I will never forget a month of driving I had after I first started NSA 2.0. For a while, I could get VERY VERY aggressive with my downswing using Brian's method of making sure the club face was closed. I don't know why, but a few things stuck out: 1- close that face, 2 - hit the inside of the ball 3- Keep my right shoulder DOWN on the down swing.
That's all I thought about and the results were like a light switch. I stopped though because my irons became grotesque in every sense of the word. It was almost like a unique 'driver only' swing. It was a very cool combination of swing thoughts that freed my body to REALLY go hard at the ball. It was refreshing and I remember even my instructor was totally blown away by straight pure power I seemed to have stumbled on (I never told him where it came from for fear of being chastised!)
I have never regained NEAR that power, but for a month I hit it very deep. Now it's gone... I mean really gone (I am back to hitting 260ish in this weather maybe that's a factor?). So maybe the secret somewhere in the shoulders. I'm by nature a very slow tempo type swinger. It sucks being out driven again by guys who don't look like they could beat my mom in an arm wrestle.
Right now all I do is try to stand tall... try not to sway (dead right slice if I do) and do NOTHING with my shoulders till my arms are at my hips (sick to death of OTT).
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Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
More than likely when you hit it further previously, you had a much better downswing; meaning on plane and axis tilt. You probably lost some axis tilt and your right shoulder might be a tad high thus you are losing some trigger delay and hitting a bit more down on the ball.
All results in less distance
All results in less distance
Deadly_Scope
New
Who ?
thefuture37
Banned
how old are you?
Guitar Hero
New member
How about the Brett Favre Look?
Guitar Hero
New member
Is there anyway to simply go hit the ball consistently with good distance and not have to think about any of these things? Steep plane, axis tilt, throwing arm, pivot, etc-etc... How do you get some swing that you just walk up and hit the ball and it goes where you want.
As a kid I remember hitting a baseball. You simply walk up "keep your eye on the ball" and hit it. Where the heck is this kind of simplicity for the golf swing? I'm not talking about hitting a cut or a fade - simply "making contact" with the stupid little ball straight down the fairway and "getting it in play." Why can't anyone make something so after a week or two of practice Joe-sixpack (or Joe the Plumber) can pick up a club and get the ball on to the green???
As a kid I remember hitting a baseball. You simply walk up "keep your eye on the ball" and hit it. Where the heck is this kind of simplicity for the golf swing? I'm not talking about hitting a cut or a fade - simply "making contact" with the stupid little ball straight down the fairway and "getting it in play." Why can't anyone make something so after a week or two of practice Joe-sixpack (or Joe the Plumber) can pick up a club and get the ball on to the green???
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Once you have learned how to do it with enough practice, it's just a matter of confidence after that. When i'm actually playing and not practicing, i mostly focus on target and what shot i'm trying to pull off. Even if i have some tendency that day as to "a miss" i just play with it. Unless it's easily fixable without much thought.
Baseball is easier because the stick isn't crooked and you don't have to worry about rotation of the sweet spot. Plus when i have taught kids i do kinda instruct them as you say. As we get older, adults don't like to learn that way; we get too analytical.
From what i know/read, after a certain age the brain of an adult learns different and people want a more "reason why." However when anyone of us teach we customize for the person. I have one student who prefers no analytical talk. Just a "tell me how to get better." So i say, feel like you do this or that etc. Then once the ball is doing what they want we're done.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Johnny Unitas, one the best quarterbacks of all time.
Deadly_Scope
New
Sorry don't know much about US sports
in the past
firstly.....brian lives in the past.......with his JOHNNY U..stuff
think of tim tebow ..............Univ of florida quarterback....
and in fairness to the GEAUX TIGERS CONTINGENT.......CONGRATS ON YOUR WIN LAST NIGHT
HOPEFULLY EACH WEEK YOU CAN PLAY AGAINST A "TRUE FRESHMAN QB
firstly.....brian lives in the past.......with his JOHNNY U..stuff
think of tim tebow ..............Univ of florida quarterback....
and in fairness to the GEAUX TIGERS CONTINGENT.......CONGRATS ON YOUR WIN LAST NIGHT
HOPEFULLY EACH WEEK YOU CAN PLAY AGAINST A "TRUE FRESHMAN QB
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