Straight From The Trackman Trenches!!! (New Trackman Newsletter)

[ggsjpc]

Thanks for the clarification.

Two questions:

1. A downward blow imparted on the ball, as measured by Trackman, sees the clubhead hit at varying degrees above the ball's equator and travel down to the ground?

2. What is it about hitting down on the ball that produces more spin?

Any help much appreciated

James

James,

1. If the ball is hit above the equator it would be a topped shot. That is not what happens.

2. Hitting down on the ball does a couple things. Generally speaking, hitting down on the ball compresses the ball better. This allows the ball to roll up the face more while in contact with the grooves. Hitting down on the ball will also, generally, produces more speed which makes all the above things happen more.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mPAlrikWcw[/media]

Here's a link to some high speed video.

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

James,

1. If the ball is hit above the equator it would be a topped shot. That is not what happens.

2. Hitting down on the ball does a couple things. Generally speaking, hitting down on the ball compresses the ball better. This allows the ball to roll up the face more while in contact with the grooves. Hitting down on the ball will also, generally, produces more speed which makes all the above things happen more.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mPAlrikWcw[/media]

Here's a link to some high speed video.

Thanks for that. The reason for the first question was that Brian, after his early Trackman sessions, wrote (if I understood it correctly)that Trackman measures a downward blow as the degrees hit above the equator with a 90º blow hitting right on the top of the ball.

James

 

[jmessner]

2. Hitting down on the ball does a couple things. Generally speaking, hitting down on the ball compresses the ball better. This allows the ball to roll up the face more while in contact with the grooves. Hitting down on the ball will also, generally, produces more speed which makes all the above things happen more.

My understanding of what produces greater spin is that the ball rolls less up the face before it "sticks" during impact which causes a greater shearing force on the cover which produces more spin. For example, a flier is usually caused by some lubricant (grass) causing the ball to slip up the face more than normal causing less shear. Anyway, this is an interesting question because there has been a long debate about whether a downward blow(more negative angle of attack) with the same effective loft relative to angle of attach would produce more spin and why. On-the-course experiences say it happens, but haven't seen a really good explanation of why.

Jay

 

[jaridyard]

Same spin rate if the difference between AoA and Dyn Loft are the same.

 

[jmessner]

Same spin rate if the difference between AoA and Dyn Loft are the same.

Yep. This is exactly the logic put forth when we the subject of downward AoA vs spin rate comes up. And it makes sense too. So why do some of us perceive an increased spin rate, say hitting down of hardpan? Based on these parameters, the only explanation is increased spin loft but I haven't seen any data to prove it. Are there other parameters involved?

 

[ggsjpc]

Same spin rate if the difference between AoA and Dyn Loft are the same.

This is all well and good but I was trying to give some information about hitting down at it vs. throwing the club out/away. I think it is also fair to say that with a ball on the ground, it becomes more difficult to contact the face in the same location with varying attack angles.

 

[jaridyard]

Yep. This is exactly the logic put forth when we the subject of downward AoA vs spin rate comes up. And it makes sense too. So why do some of us perceive an increased spin rate, say hitting down of hardpan? Based on these parameters, the only explanation is increased spin loft but I haven't seen any data to prove it. Are there other parameters involved?

Well, off hardpan there is nothing at all to get between ball and clubface whereas even off the best of fairways there will still be potential to get some grass between club and ball. For me the correlation between hitting down and increased spin is not due to the increased AoA but more the lie, we just associate AoA and spin more readily.

Spin also increases with a greater AoA from all but the tightest of fairways for the same reason, less to get trapped between club and ball.

 

[jaridyard]

This is all well and good but I was trying to give some information about hitting down at it vs. throwing the club out/away. I think it is also fair to say that with a ball on the ground, it becomes more difficult to contact the face in the same location with varying attack angles.

I was only really addressing the post previous to mine not yours. I think forward lean is more important for consistent impact location than AoA, hitting down is just one way of achieving it. Compression really comes from a less oblique strike.

 

[ggsjpc]

I was only really addressing the post previous to mine not yours. I think forward lean is more important for consistent impact location than AoA, hitting down is just one way of achieving it. Compression really comes from a less oblique strike.

Like we've talked many times before, I'm just trying to keep up with you smart guys. What is a less oblique strike?

 

[gravity003]

The question I have is I hit a shot and it does not go direction I want it to go. How do I make a correction? I'm confused.

 

[James Marshall (Hogan1953)]

Same spin rate if the difference between AoA and Dyn Loft are the same.

Is there something about hitting down on the ball that potentially increases the difference between A of A and dynamic loft and thus creating more spin?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Depends on how you hit down on it?If you hit down 5degrees with a ton of forward lean that will decrease the differential and take off spin. But if you hit down 5 degrees with very little the diff is much greater, increasing spin.

 

[benhogan55]

This is a very simple concept. Don't let all the science confuse you.

Old way to hook around tree:

Aim face where you want ball to land and aim feet where you want the ball to start. If done correctly, ball will hit tree.

New way to hook around tree:

Aim face where you want the ball to start and swing right of the face. If done correctly, ball starts right of tree and draws. In the beginning, you won't know how much right to swing to create the amount of curve you need. It isn't packaged up nicely like the old way.

If you want all the details and specifics, you can pm me or do a search.

would the opposite be true to fade it around the tree?

 

[ggsjpc]

would the opposite be true to fade it around the tree?

yes, opposite is true for a fade.

 

[RASWING]

TRACKMAN

Guys,
Where can I go to get a session on trackman and work on some of these numbers... I am here in Jacksonville , FL?
Thanks

 

[ggsjpc]

Guys,
Where can I go to get a session on trackman and work on some of these numbers... I am here in Jacksonville , FL?
Thanks

you can go to trackmangolf.com and use their locator.