Strong Left Hand with Weak Right Hand

[ej20]

Jamie Sadlowski is a perfect example of a strong grip player who needs to hold of the left forearm rotation for dear life...so much so that he chicken wings after impact.

Look at where the back of his left wrist is facing at impact....towards the camera.If he were to rotate his left forearm more to have the back of his left wrist facing the target,his clubface would be so shut it would not be funny.

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[ej20]

Now contrast Sadlowsi with Tiger.Woods plays with a relatively weak left hand and thus he needs to rotate his left forearm a lot more to square the clubface.Look at where the back of his left wrist is facing at impact...towards the target...much more rotation.

This is what I mean by rotational skills.You need a lot more forearm rotation to play with a weak grip and not many players are up to the task.

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[Tball88]

interesting post, I'm not so sure Tiger doesn't have more rotation due to the weaker right hand grip he has than sadlowski, so he has to rotate more to square up.
For me, the right hand grip has way more impact on my ball flight than the left hand grip. A weak right hand will hit more fades a strong right hand more draws, regardless of how my left hand is setup.

 

[ej20]

interesting post, I'm not so sure Tiger doesn't have more rotation due to the weaker right hand grip he has than sadlowski, so he has to rotate more to square up.
For me, the right hand grip has way more impact on my ball flight than the left hand grip. A weak right hand will hit more fades a strong right hand more draws, regardless of how my left hand is setup.

If you watch closely both Tiger and Jamie has about the same right hand grip...fairly neutral.I don't see Jamie with his right palm facing up.

Players with a strong right hand will turn the left over whereas a weak right hand won't.You need to post vids to make your point otherwise it's just talk.I at least back up my theories with video.

Bottom line is the back of the left hand mirrors the clubface,just like the right palm.You can't have one without the other.

 

[Tball88]

EJ, not arguing, I just see it different to me. Tiger's right hand appears to me to be very weak with the top of the V going in a striaght line towards the right side of his head. Jamie's right hand V appears to be pointing right of his right shoulder, which is probably only about an inch stronger, but can make a big difference.

I think Tiger has both a weak right and left hand, which is why his misses are typically right. Jamie has a really strong left and a slightly strong right. My guess is he misses left, which is why he chicken wings to hold it off.

Unfortunately only the golfer knows if his right hand or left hand impacts his ball flight more. My left arm is just along for the ride, while for others they are far more left arm dominent.

 

[SteveT]

Everybody is analyzing the snapshot geometry of the swings, but nobody seems to comment on or appreciate the sequencing of the kinetic chain and the development of kinetic energy throughout the swing.

Everybody thinks the power is developed at Impact, whereas I see things at the start of the downswing and the initial movement to shaft vertical that influences kinetic energy integration. Perhaps it's because I am beyond looking at positions and postures ... and can see how power is generated. It's something that happens when you appreciate the physics.

Ironically, HomerK tried to do it with his "Accumulator" hydraulic concepts he learned at Boeing .. which is not valid for human dynamics .. go figure.

 

[ej20]

EJ, not arguing, I just see it different to me. Tiger's right hand appears to me to be very weak with the top of the V going in a striaght line towards the right side of his head. Jamie's right hand V appears to be pointing right of his right shoulder, which is probably only about an inch stronger, but can make a big difference.

I think Tiger has both a weak right and left hand, which is why his misses are typically right. Jamie has a really strong left and a slightly strong right. My guess is he misses left, which is why he chicken wings to hold it off.

Unfortunately only the golfer knows if his right hand or left hand impacts his ball flight more. My left arm is just along for the ride, while for others they are far more left arm dominent.

You can't rely on where the V's are pointed.Jamie plays and addresses the ball much farther forward than Tiger being a long drive competitor.This will arch the right wrist and the V will point farther right even with a weak grip.you gotta look at where the palm is facing.

I believe the point you are trying to make is that the strength of the right hand is what influences the clubface regardless of what the left does.If this is your point then I would like to see a video of someone with a strong right hand hook or pull the ball with no or little rotation of the left forearm.

 

[MacSnoGan]

can someone tell me how to do a PM. I right clicked left clicked etc couldent find the trick

also Dlan. I think if you give it a try you will find you trade your slowish torque feel for a faster snap feel at impact... and i bet you gain some distance.

it takes a little to get used to this grip, however it is well worth the effort.

 

[Tball88]

"I believe the point you are trying to make is that the strength of the right hand is what influences the clubface regardless of what the left does.If this is your point then I would like to see a video of someone with a strong right hand hook or pull the ball with no or little rotation of the left forearm."


No, the point I'm trying to make is that it is different for each person. For me, I can setup with my left hand as weak or as strong as I like, it's my right hand grip that impacts my ball flight. Now, that's for me a person who is right arm dominent. For others the left hand grip can have a much greater impact on their ball flight, because they use the left arm to square up the face. If I setup with a strong right hand, I roll the club over and hook. A weak right hand and I typically hit fairly straight or maybe some fades.

So I agree with your premise that Tiger has to rotate more through impact because he has a weak grip. I just don't necessarily know that it's specifically due to having a weak left hand. A weak right hand could cause you to have to rotate more as well.

We're not that far apart on this one really.

 

[ej20]

Tball88,I certainly agree with you that the right hand also is a big influence.Like I said a strong right hand will more likely turn the left over,so in effect you don't need to feel like you have to rotate the left forearm but that doesn't mean it hasn't rotated.

What I do disagree with is your assesment of Jamie and Tigers right hand grip strength based on where the V's are pointed.Looking at the V's alone is widly inaccurate.Cupping the left and arching the right will point the V's right.Arching the left and cupping the right will point the V's left.Not all players have the same combination of wrist orientation at address which you have to take into consideration.

 

[dlam]

I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me but I would at least like an explanation of why you think this is so.

Weak left hand grip players have their clubface more open than strong grip players relative to where the forearm is rotated.Weak left hand grip players need to rotate their left forearm back to where the back of the left wrist faces the target otherwise the clubface will be wide open.Strong left hand grip players do not have to...if they did,they will hook.They are the ones who need to hold off the rotation.

To make this discussion meaningful we have to agree to the weak/strong term.
Strong is pretty obvious ...4 or 3 knuckles on the top of the shaft so when you turn the back of the left hand to the target the clubhead appears shut.
Weak meaning 1 knuckle using Hogan's weak grip as an example.
Hogan says in his "five lessons" book that his left hand V points to the right eye.
In some other golfer's book this may be considered neutral.

Your definition of weak where the left thumb at 12 oclock and the clubface being open. No one can swing effectively like that for a full swing except maybe a pitch shot.

When the back of the left hand lines up square with the leaning edge of the clubface and the left thumb at 1 oclock that would be consider weak or neutral left hand grip.
Because we have 4 metacarpal bones that that make up the "back of the left hand" ....when we grasp the club with our left hand but not all our metatcarpals are line up square to the leading edge. Thus 2.5 knuckle grip can feel as square as a 1 knuckle grip depending on which metacarpal bone we consider is the "back of the left hand"
So a Hogan or Miller 1 knuckle weak grip...... the clubface would square not open.

If you hold a the club with a strong left hand grip it would FEEL REALLY TIGHT over the left forearm. The forearms FEEL LOOSER with a weak left hand grip.
A strong gripper will release that force from the tight left forearm at impact more than a weak gripper.

 

[dlam]

Jamie Sadlowski is a perfect example of a strong grip player who needs to hold of the left forearm rotation for dear life...so much so that he chicken wings after impact.

Look at where the back of his left wrist is facing at impact....towards the camera.If he were to rotate his left forearm more to have the back of his left wrist facing the target,his clubface would be so shut it would not be funny.

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As you know, to an observer the grip may appear more strong or weak than it actually is depending on how the golfer sets his hands at address.
A golfer setting his hands low with a cup left wrist it may appear more "strong" . The same grip looks weaker if the position of the hands at address is higher and left wrist is bent/bow.
So you need to provide a side profile to see how Jamie sets his hands from that view.

But for practical purposes of debate.....lets say he does have a strong grip and it does appear he does.
At around .54 sec his left forearm rotates right at impact. He sustains the torque. He doesnt rotate the forearm prior to impact. Agree that would hook the ball. BUT he rotates the forearm RIGHT at IMPACT to squish the ball. Remember clubface alignment isnt entirely controlled by the left forearm. By .57 sec he releases and rotates fully that left forearm.

 

[dlam]

Now contrast Sadlowsi with Tiger.Woods plays with a relatively weak left hand and thus he needs to rotate his left forearm a lot more to square the clubface.Look at where the back of his left wrist is facing at impact...towards the target...much more rotation.

This is what I mean by rotational skills.You need a lot more forearm rotation to play with a weak grip and not many players are up to the task.

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Tiger appears to me to use his pivot and wide shoulder turn to rotate the clubface through the ball. His left forearm is in good tempo with the rest of his body.
I agree he has great rotational skills, but I think it is from the other parts of his body rather than "rotate his left forearm"

I think Jamie lashes out his left forearm out more than Tiger does.

 

[dlam]

Dariusz,

You say interlock is not the best for bio-k grip.
Which method of joining the hands do you think is best for the bio-k-grip?

 

[ej20]

To make this discussion meaningful we have to agree to the weak/strong term.
Strong is pretty obvious ...4 or 3 knuckles on the top of the shaft so when you turn the back of the left hand to the target the clubhead appears shut.
Weak meaning 1 knuckle using Hogan's weak grip as an example.
Hogan says in his "five lessons" book that his left hand V points to the right eye.
In some other golfer's book this may be considered neutral.

Your definition of weak where the left thumb at 12 oclock and the clubface being open. No one can swing effectively like that for a full swing except maybe a pitch shot.

When the back of the left hand lines up square with the leaning edge of the clubface and the left thumb at 1 oclock that would be consider weak or neutral left hand grip.
Because we have 4 metacarpal bones that that make up the "back of the left hand" ....when we grasp the club with our left hand but not all our metatcarpals are line up square to the leading edge. Thus 2.5 knuckle grip can feel as square as a 1 knuckle grip depending on which metacarpal bone we consider is the "back of the left hand"
So a Hogan or Miller 1 knuckle weak grip...... the clubface would square not open.

If you hold a the club with a strong left hand grip it would FEEL REALLY TIGHT over the left forearm. The forearms FEEL LOOSER with a weak left hand grip.
A strong gripper will release that force from the tight left forearm at impact more than a weak gripper.

Hogan placed his left thumb directly on top of the shaft and he hit it ok.I never said his clubface was open.It is open relative to a player using a stronger grip.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Dariusz,

You say interlock is not the best for bio-k grip.
Which method of joining the hands do you think is best for the bio-k-grip?

Overlapping is the best way of joining hands on a golf grip, IMO. Interlock is deep in nature as people subconsciously seek for feeling of firmness and, therefore, they tend to put RH pinky till the limit making it impossible to have a weaker RH in relation to LH.

Cheers

 

[ej20]

As you know, to an observer the grip may appear more strong or weak than it actually is depending on how the golfer sets his hands at address.
A golfer setting his hands low with a cup left wrist it may appear more "strong" . The same grip looks weaker if the position of the hands at address is higher and left wrist is bent/bow.
So you need to provide a side profile to see how Jamie sets his hands from that view.

But for practical purposes of debate.....lets say he does have a strong grip and it does appear he does.
At around .54 sec his left forearm rotates right at impact. He sustains the torque. He doesnt rotate the forearm prior to impact. Agree that would hook the ball. BUT he rotates the forearm RIGHT at IMPACT to squish the ball. Remember clubface alignment isnt entirely controlled by the left forearm. By .57 sec he releases and rotates fully that left forearm.

I guess we are seeing different things.I see very little rotation of his left forearm before and at impact COMPARED to Tiger.Most of the rotation is after impact by which time the ball is long gone.

It is not even up for debate whether Sadlowski has a strong left hand grip or not.I not only see 3 knuckles.I see all 4.You can look at it from any angle you wish,it is strong.

 

[ej20]

Tiger appears to me to use his pivot and wide shoulder turn to rotate the clubface through the ball. His left forearm is in good tempo with the rest of his body.
I agree he has great rotational skills, but I think it is from the other parts of his body rather than "rotate his left forearm"

I think Jamie lashes out his left forearm out more than Tiger does.

I don't agree that pivot rotation alone can influence forearm rotation.Tiger has a marvelous pivot but he pales in comparison to Sadlowski.How else do you think he generates 150mph of clubhead speed?The guy only weighs 175.

 

[dlam]

Ej20
We have to agree to disagree.
I respect your opinion but don't like the way you try to present them as factual.

Like your last thread"why great players have neutral grips"
Have you considered the fact that 80-90 percentage golfers have neutral grips therefore the probabilty that there are a overwhelming numbers of winners with neutral grips are because there are more of them?
Not because of your assumption that it is a "better" grip.
Duval, Daly,Couples, Z Johnson... these are players with strong left hand grip who won majors.

Please consider the other side of the coin.

 

[ej20]

Ej20
We have to agree to disagree.
I respect your opinion but don't like the way you try to present them as factual.

Like your last thread"why great players have neutral grips"
Have you considered the fact that 80-90 percentage golfers have neutral grips therefore the probabilty that there are a overwhelming numbers of winners with neutral grips are because there are more of them?
Not because of your assumption that it is a "better" grip.
Duval, Daly,Couples, Z Johnson... these are players with strong left hand grip who won majors.

Please consider the other side of the coin.

I never pass anything off as factual.I use the term "in my opinion" quite a lot when I post.When I do offer an opinion I try to back it up with what I hope is a good explanation and some visual examples to prove I'm not making it up as I go along.I also put a lot of thought into my posts and I hope it's appreciated.That's all I try to do.