Sweetspot plane analysis

[The Return of NAT]

6‑C‑1 PRESSURE POINTS
#3. The first joint of the Right Hand index finger where it touches the Clubshaft.

If it is possible to have a #3 pressure point without using the first joint of the Right Hand index finger Homer's definition is plainly incorrect . What should it read?

The 1st edition states in 10-2...p.83

"#3 Pressure Point is always between the first and second knuckles of the Right Hand first finger".....This is different than all the other editions and 6-C-1 #3...also we know that for swining per loading procedure the pressure point rotates down toward the top knuckle and with the hitter it is fixed to the aft side ....


But for identifying per grip type the 1st edition definiton on p. 83 is most easily understood...at least for me!!!!

 

[Perfect Impact]

*The #3 Pressure Point can be either active or passive.
*The Orbiting Clubhead does not seek out the Ball-it seeks out the Delivery Line. But never directly-only via the Right Forearm and the #3 Pressure Point.

DRW

Unless, of course, when your right hand is in your pocket.

The question still hasn't been answered. How is the SS plane defined when the golfer swings the club with his left hand and arm only?

 

[The Return of NAT]

Unless, of course, when your right hand is in your pocket.

The question still hasn't been answered. How is the SS plane defined when the golfer swings the club with his left hand and arm only?

SWEET SPOT Example – a plumb bob.
Mechanical – The longitudinal Center of Gravity of a length of material.
Golf – The spot on the Clubface through which a plumb-bob line would pass if suspended from the Grip area.

Here it is defined without either hand on the club!!!!

 

[DOCW3]

Unless, of course, when your right hand is in your pocket.

The question still hasn't been answered. How is the SS plane defined when the golfer swings the club with his left hand and arm only?

George~

I don't feel there is an answer that is compatible with TGM because I think HK is saying there is always a purpose for PP3 and by "definition" the Sweet Spot Plane runs through PP3. For me, "passive" is consistent with PP3 being his "lens."

HK indicated that Chapter 5 was TGM "simplified" and there both hands are on the club.

OTOH, based on the book's organization and descriptions I suspect he evolved to placing emphasis on the SS Plane as the plane to work with. I have not read any comments indicating this area received attention/clarification in the seventh addition.

Hopefully someone can resolve your concern.

DRW

 

[rundmc]

Nice one, but remember Brian doesn't teach (to most people anyway) the aft left thumb position.

So.

 

[Brian Manzella]

YIKES!!!!

SWEET SPOT Example – a plumb bob.
Mechanical – The longitudinal Center of Gravity of a length of material.
Golf – The spot on the Clubface through which a plumb-bob line would pass if suspended from the Grip area.

Here it is defined without either hand on the club!!!!

Thanks NAT!

WHEW!

Listen all Homer haters and confused Kool-Aid drinkers,

The #3 pressure point is a point WHERE the golfer FEELS PRESSURE from the club, when THEY ARE trying to rotate the #3 accumulator.

Period.

Okay, OK, you feel LAG PRESSURE there too.

"Search for the Perfect swing has a couple sequences with a left arm only golfer.

Homer saw that, geeez!

He also knew that the #3 PP location is different for ALL DIFFERENT GRIPS:

Different for mine

and Jim Furyk (more up the grip)

and Art Wall (more down the grip)

and Charlie Owens & Albert Crews (left thumb but in 'same spot')

and Tommy Bolt & Don Villavaso (way down the grip [huge hands])

and JW NickLoss (small hands, more up the grip)

and Ed Fiori (right thumb!)

and a left hand only golfer (could be the thumb print or inside of thumb [see Albert Crews])

 

[Perfect Impact]

The PLANE of the ss when there is no right hand on the club, however, runs to the left SHOULDER. And there is NO pp#3 because the only connection hand to club is the loop, hinge, rawhide, or whatever you want to use.

The club is moved lengthwise along an arc of sorts, and the head gets thrown by virtue of the pulled grip end and the nature of that moving in an arc instead of along a straight line.

So anything at the SIDE of the shaft is irrelevant.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The PLANE of the ss when there is no right hand on the club, however, runs to the left SHOULDER. And there is NO pp#3 because the only connection hand to club is the loop, hinge, rawhide, or whatever you want to use.

The club is moved lengthwise along an arc of sorts, and the head gets thrown by virtue of the pulled grip end and the nature of that moving in an arc instead of along a straight line.

So anything at the SIDE of the shaft is irrelevant.

No George.

But, maybe that's why you have leakage.

 

[Perfect Impact]

You assume, Brian. I hava no leakage. The Iron Byron hava no leakage because that is how it is constructed. Nothing pressing the side of the shaft. Or do you feel that the IB DOES have leakage?

If so, the designers need your help. They couldn't have known much, obviously...Right?

If you mean and believe what you say, esplain. One-liners give the percepotion of divine right or something...and I don't have a cell phone to that office.

 

[shootin4par]

The PLANE of the ss when there is no right hand on the club, however, runs to the left SHOULDER. And there is NO pp#3 because the only connection hand to club is the loop, hinge, rawhide, or whatever you want to use.

The club is moved lengthwise along an arc of sorts, and the head gets thrown by virtue of the pulled grip end and the nature of that moving in an arc instead of along a straight line.

So anything at the SIDE of the shaft is irrelevant.

maybe I am reading this wrong but are you saying the right arm extension is irrelevant when it comes to club head speed or powering through the shot?

 

[Perfect Impact]

Nope. I am saying that that particular pp is irrelevant if you don't use IT. pp #1 does the work you ask about. A pure swing, not a hit with sideways pressure on the shaft.

 

[shootin4par]

Nope. I am saying that that particular pp is irrelevant if you don't use IT. pp #1 does the work you ask about. A pure swing, not a hit with sideways pressure on the shaft.

I see what you are saying

 

[Bigwill]

Nope. I am saying that that particular pp is irrelevant if you don't use IT. pp #1 does the work you ask about. A pure swing, not a hit with sideways pressure on the shaft.

Are you defining "using it" as active pressure, or as sensing the clubhead/sweetspot? In a centrifugal force-driven swing (no physicist semantics arguments from anybody, please) the right hand, including the #3 pressure point, is passive. The index finger is just sensing the clubhead. So, as far as power application is concerned, you're right; it may as well be in the pocket. But again, power application isn't the purpose of pp3 in a CF swing, anyway. And since it is primarily used for sensing in a CF swing, it is theoretically still there, even with the right hand gone; as it has been alluded to earlier in the thread, it is the part of the hand closest to the clubhead that actually senses the weight of the clubhead.

 

[Perfect Impact]

Then WHY DOESN'T those who talk about this stuff SAY that it is for such and such purposes. The word "pressure" is plain English, and it sure misleads those who USE PRESSURE against the shaft with the right index finger and cause throwaway, or struggle with incredibly inappropriate "drills" and accommodations to prevent it (such as "holding the lag" or whatever).

Throwaway CAN NOT HAPPEN when the only force on the clubhead is lengthwise, the fulcrum being pushed longitudinally. You can, of course, use too big a backswing and use UP that release at the wrong time, which is not the same thing.

I sense my clubhead in my left heel, FYI. I did that starting when I took up the game when I was 14 years old.

Incidentally, a stressed clubshaft does NOT retain its bent-back lag; impact positions of impact show the clubhead advanced in front ot the shaft, which is bent the opposite way--head first, backwards "C" shape; and science proves that stress ON a bent shaft is of no consequence whatsoever during the 5/10,000 of a sec. of the impact interval. It is simply too short a time to influence the shaft's resistance to the collision. What IS salient is using the center of percussion to deliver ALL the mass in the clubhead into the ball, and of course, as square as possible (minimizing side spin and inappropriate backspin).

You might as well throw the CH into the ball suspended on a piece of string.

So some of the theories on which TGM is built simply do not stand up.

A house built on sand? No, but needing interpretation and adjustment.

Active pressure with PP#1 does assist the left hand to support its function of moving the handle with force. Mr. Nicklaus and a few others strike golf balls "with the hands only holding on." But they drive their HANDS like you would if you were lashing someone with vitriol with a whip, intending to inflict the greatest pain.

 

[Bigwill]

Then WHY DOESN'T those who talk about this stuff SAY that it is for such and such purposes. The word "pressure" is plain English, and it sure misleads those who USE PRESSURE against the shaft with the right index finger and cause throwaway, or struggle with incredibly inappropriate "drills" and accommodations to prevent it (such as "holding the lag" or whatever).

Throwaway CAN NOT HAPPEN when the only force on the clubhead is lengthwise, the fulcrum being pushed longitudinally. You can, of course, use too big a backswing and use UP that release at the wrong time, which is not the same thing.

I sense my clubhead in my left heel, FYI. I did that starting when I took up the game when I was 14 years old.

Incidentally, a stressed clubshaft does NOT retain its bent-back lag; impact positions of impact show the clubhead advanced in front ot the shaft, which is bent the opposite way--head first, backwards "C" shape; and science proves that stress ON a bent shaft is of no consequence whatsoever during the 5/10,000 of a sec. of the impact interval. It is simply too short a time to influence the shaft's resistance to the collision. What IS salient is using the center of percussion to deliver ALL the mass in the clubhead into the ball, and of course, as square as possible (minimizing side spin and inappropriate backspin).

You might as well throw the CH into the ball suspended on a piece of string.

So some of the theories on which TGM is built simply do not stand up.

A house built on sand? No, but needing interpretation and adjustment.

Active pressure with PP#1 does assist the left hand to support its function of moving the handle with force. Mr. Nicklaus and a few others strike golf balls "with the hands only holding on." But they drive their HANDS like you would if you were lashing someone with vitriol with a whip, intending to inflict the greatest pain.

A lot of the terms and phrases in TGM are uniquely TGM in their usage and, as such, must be taken within the context of TGM. If you are new to TGM, and /or don't have access to the book, then there is a lot of room for confusion and arguments based mainly on semantics. Could it be easier to read? I don't think you'll get too much of an argument there. That's likely why these forums stay so busy. As far as your last paragraph is concerned, I think you're preaching to the TGM choir, particularly in your statement about driving the hands.

The shaft at impact thing? I'll leave that alone; IMO, that is a feel vs. real thing (although, the feeling of taking a stressed shaft through impact probably goes a long way toward fighting throwaway and/or quitting without trying to "hang on" to the angle).

 

[rundmc]

and a left hand only golfer (could be the thumb print or inside of thumb [see Albert Crews])

Yeah baby! I am validated. Who is Albert Crews? Ironically enough my last name Crews.

RUNDMC the king is me your highness or his majesty.

 

[DOCW3]

Yeah baby! I am validated. Who is Albert Crews? Ironically enough my last name Crews.

RUNDMC the king is me your highness or his majesty.

Cross-handed grip!

DRW