Teaching / learning TGM - is there a better way?

[golfbulldog]

Plain and simple - yes ! but it is your discussion that i wish to hear.

7 editions over 37 (ish ?) years and TGM is hardly known about by mainstream golfers ( and for the few that do know about it, many of them see it as "cultish" etc. )

How can I book that has so many answers be so unknown and even belittled by mainstream golfers? Here are my thoughts but please tell me yours.

1. Homer Kelley wrote TGM and subtitled it "The computer age approach to golfing perfection". His style of writing needed the blossoming of internet and computer access to be understood more easily. Again he was ahead of its time. Brian and others are "on time", if not a little early themselves!! Web forums work.

2. Homer may have known alot about geometry but did he know that much about teaching and learning ? Is there a better way to learn than page X ? Yes, with an AI - but the world is a large place and AI are few.

3. So many people talk about a "TGM for dummies" style book being of use. There must be a role for a book which critically appraises and expands upon each chapter and paragraph in the book ( English lit students can buy a book that tells them about narrative themes in "War and Peace" - why not similar version for TGM)? There must also be a role for a book which leads you ( via standard golf style pattern - eg grip, address, stance, posture etc) towards building the basic 12-2-0 pattern.

4. Does TGM - the business and its lawyers - restrict the development of TGM related books / DVDs ? Surely all authors would have to do is to appropriately acknowledge and reference their work to pass any legal test?

5. Is there a conspiracy amongst golf teaching business to keep the masses down and their handicaps up? If golf were just straight plane line, FLW and lag pressure points - they would all be out of a business?

Your thoughts please , ignore 5 ( unless you believe that Homer was a being from another planet who instead of building pyramids etc built airplanes and golfing machines!!)[]

 

[Jared Willerson]

I have run the full gamut. de la Torre to Ballard and nothing is more complete and satisfying than The Golfing Machine as taught and discussed by competent people.

I have learned much on this forum, but the golf swing is really about the 3 imperatives. Everything else just helps you arrive at those imperatives. That is where the learning takes place, where you find your own filter and in doing so find your own unique way to swing a golf club.

That is the beauty of TGM - 3 simple imperatives, yet a lifetime of gaining full understanding.

 

[Biffer]

The problem with the TGM book/system is not what's in the book, but what is not in the book. Much of what is in the book is very difficult to comprehend without a good deal of re-reading and even then you can still be left wondering whether or not you have interpreted it's meaning correctly. The lack of a complete and clear explanation of the material in the book in a manner that the average reader could easily decipher it is the problem with the TGM book/system. It's too bad because the info in the book is absolutely priceless!

 

[swingeasttowest]

The golf swing must be learned. After you have all the information and know what to look for, then set up a camera and watch yourself hitting balls. Back and forth, hit and look. You know what your feeling when you are swinging the club,so when you watch it yourself you sense what you did. Make a change in your swing and then watch what it looks like. Tedious work to say the least....................

 

[swingeasttowest]

This is from Mandrin and sums it up pretty good.............

"Feel and real are two distinct realities. Both are very valid but often even contradicting. However, for a golfer the ultimate reality is his ‘feel reality’ and not the ‘science reality’."

 

[golfbulldog]

quote:Originally posted by Biffer

The problem with the TGM book/system is not what's in the book, but what is not in the book. Much of what is in the book is very difficult to comprehend without a good deal of re-reading and even then you can still be left wondering whether or not you have interpreted it's meaning correctly. The lack of a complete and clear explanation of the material in the book in a manner that the average reader could easily decipher it is the problem with the TGM book/system. It's too bad because the info in the book is absolutely priceless!

This is what I think too - it is not the message but the messenger that has held back TGM.

Difficult to read Literature books in English Lit classes can be made more accessible by guides which explain complex themes and , more importantly reference other works which say similiar or contrasting things. I sometimes wish Homer had referenced TGM with the players and literature which influenced his thinking. kmmcnabb is collecting list of books with TGM style to them, many predate TGM and Homer must have read them.

These books are not wrong, just a bit incomplete and naive compared with TGM. They explain that the apple falls from the tree but Homer tells us about gravity!

 

[bts]

There aren't really that many to be learned for an effective golf swing, a spinning pivot acuating a straight leading arm sustaining a lagging club through a sitting ball.

The next is to execute that move, regardless of what others move.

 

[strav]

For many people TGM, as written by Homer, needs an interpreter. Brian and Lynn have gone a long way towards providing interpretation in their forums however the written word is more difficult to comprehend than visual instruction. As the use of video becomes more prevalent more people will have a better understanding and appreciation of Homer's work. In years to come, Brian and others such as Peter Croker will be remembered as the people who were at the cutting edge of introducing TGM to the masses. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[rundmc]

Keep in mind when the book was written Homer didn't have access to the technology that we enjoy today. Hell the video camera essentially just arrived on the scene when the 6th was published. The book is cumbersome no doubt and some concepts are very difficult to explain via the written text. In the book he implores the student to seek instruction from an Authorized Instructor and at the time that was the best "technology" he had at his disposal. He developed the AI System which still exists today. An is still probably the best means of getting his concepts out to people in a way they can comprehend. I don't get the impression that Mr. Kelley was a "wealthy" man. So he probably didn't have the funding to get his ideas on TV or video where things could be much more effectively demonstrated.

 

[hue]

I introduced a good friend of mine to TGM. He has been a PGA pro for over 13 years. He said what was needed is a book on how to read the book. A manual on how to read the TGM manual. He also said that the information he got prior to TGM through the PGA system general coaching and what you see on TV etc was rubbish by comparison . Only since getting into TGM last June has he felt that he has a clear idea of what he should be doing and he played off +3 prior to TGM. His biggest problem at the moment is getting used to the fact that he is a much better ball striker and capable of shooting ridiculously low scores. His bad scores now are his old good scores. Brian has done an amazing job with his swing. Watching a friend evolve and improve through TGM and good coaching has proved to me just how powerful Mr Kelley's work is and how good a coach Brian is. He wishes he had found out about TGM and been introduced to Brian earlier in his career. I have no doubt that if that were on the case that he would have been on tour already but as it is he is looking good for European Tour school this September

 

[golfbulldog]

quote:Originally posted by hue

I introduced a good friend of mine to TGM. He has been a PGA pro for over 13 years. He said what was needed is a book on how to read the book. A manual on how to read the TGM manual. He also said that the information he got prior to TGM through the PGA system general coaching and what you see on TV etc was rubbish by comparison . Only since getting into TGM last June has he felt that he has a clear idea of what he should be doing and he played off +3 prior to TGM. His biggest problem at the moment is getting used to the fact that he is a much better ball striker and capable of shooting ridiculously low scores. His bad scores now are his old good scores. Brian has done an amazing job with his swing. Watching a friend evolve and improve through TGM and good coaching has proved to me just how powerful Mr Kelley's work is and how good a coach Brian is. He wishes he had found out about TGM and been introduced to Brian earlier in his career. I have no doubt that if that were on the case that he would have been on tour already but as it is he is looking good for European Tour school this September

That's what I mean - "a book on how to read the book". Why , when the information held within is so rich, has nobody come out with such a book? How much does TGM ( the business) control the rights of those who wish to comment on TGM (the book)?

 

[birdie_man]

I think it would be cool if someone made a CD that followed TGM along....

There could be videos explaining the concepts....as well as text that follows the book along (i.e. a re-write of TGM in layman's terms).

 

[huestisc]

What would be really great is a chapter by chapter DVD...you could watch it while you read the book. Smaller chapters could be combined into one DVD, while chapter 10 would be several DVDs. It would be good to see on video what Homer is describing, as well as be able to hear some additional commentary that expands on important topics. Of course, that would be pretty expensive to produce, and would probably appeal only to an audience of about 2000 nutcases, so I am not holding my breath.

However, as technology advances, the video and interactive possibilities are endless. How would you like an interactive electronic version that would play on a PDA-type device? You read the book, but videos replace pictures and you can jump from link to link?

 

[mb6606]

There are various video clips produced by Brian, Lynn Blake on their free sites.
The most comprehensive depository of video clips resides on Chuck Evans subscription site. If you are struggling with the book and can't seem to grasp it all on the free sites then pay to access Chucks library. Every major TGM component is covered/demonstrated. Presently nearly 120 video clips and each month he adds more.

 

[golfbulldog]

quote:Originally posted by mb6606

There are various video clips produced by Brian, Lynn Blake on their free sites.
The most comprehensive depository of video clips resides on Chuck Evans subscription site. If you are struggling with the book and can't seem to grasp it all on the free sites then pay to access Chucks library. Every major TGM component is covered/demonstrated. Presently nearly 120 video clips and each month he adds more.

This sounds great and I will check it out - Thanks.

But at the same time it still leaves the masses in a state of ignorance. There are a number of ways to get the message out - but TV remains the best.Just need the right format.

Imagine Big Break VII - "the golf gurus edition" !!

Brian often says that there is no Championship for instruction - well, why not have BIG Break VII( or whatever numer it is now) as the "Golf gurus big break" - get some instructors to coach a number of random students and see who gets the most improvement the quickest.

All we need is a petition, a producer , a sponsor...

 

[Brian Manzella]

NOBODY in the GOLF BUISINESS wants a "Find a Star" competition for teachers.

Oh, make that two....you and me.

I'd win easier than Bobby Fisher vs. Roseanne Barr in chess.

 

[bts]

quote:Originally posted by golfbulldog
.................
get some instructors to coach a number of random students and see who gets the most improvement the quickest.

All we need is a petition, a producer , a sponsor...

Great idea.

Btw, can I work on those who think they can never do it, if i'm in?

 

[dbl]

TGC did do a reality series on this about two years ago, did you know? It was called Breaking 100.

The teachers were Reinmuth and McClean. McClean's student wound up doing best. Despite being portly, he went from a 100 shooter to now a single digit. Clearly the shows showed the pitfalls of certain teacher's styles and their inability to communicate to a student.

TGC did a follow up show of sorts with improving a husband wife (like, who would get better). Again, it did not really put the instructor in a good light.

Partly, in these kinds of shows (something like 8-10 lessons over 3 months), here's the problem for a teacher: does the teacher rebuild from scratch or just fix the obvious flaws, or somehow keep some flaws and improve what that person has already grooved.

Anyway, in the first series, as I recall Reinmuth's student was flipping like a maniac at the end. Student fault? Clearly, Reinmuth did not make him work on TGM chipping for lessons 1-3. And whatever Reinmuth was trying to communicate eluded the poor guy.

Edit: also more currently, Reinmuth is helping the guy with the "world's worst swing". He's also done some televised "drive by" lessons at SoCal driving ranges. I have no idea how he got picked for these assignments as he never seems to help anyone.

If anyone is going to be able to help anyone in 10 minutes, it would be someone like Brian, not DR.

 

[golfbulldog]

I did see 1 episode of the Flick student - did not know it was part of head to head.

I raised the issue as semi-joke but it would be good if Brian could have a "put up or shut up" event with some of the TGC regulars!!

Never happen though - if it has been done before it would need a double twist/gimmick to get air time.Have to do it naked or something weird!!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brian Manzella, The Itallian Stallion, once put up an offer of $20,000 to Golf Magazine editor George Peper to have a debate with a "Top 100" teacher on TGC, with the winner (if it was BM) going on to debate again.

I said, "After I knock off about three or four of the second tier easily, and then I (get matched against a) "trouble shooter," it'll be the #1 reanked show in TGC history.

George replied, "What woud that prove?"

I said (as I walked away), "That, not only was I better, but WHEN I win, becuase of the bias going in—MUCH BETTER."