The ball flight for hitter

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by bray

Four Barrels and Tongzilla,

Good responses!
Now to approach this from the player's point of view.....
I understand now that I should be striving for a true angled hinge(in line with the plane, or the club face is at a 45 degree angle to the baseline at a fixed point past impact we'll say 6 inches each time to get consistency and do a perfect machine hitting motion, and your are saying that the plane affects the rate of closing....
but if I strive for an angled hinge action that is closer to horizontal hinge action(let's say the club face is at a 65 degree angle to the baseline at a fixed point past impact we'll say 6 inches) the ball will go left won't it??
Is this correct, please help i'm trying to learn, because I think I can shape shots with my hitting motion just with hinge action.

Sorting Through the Duffer's Bible.

B-Ray

Your ability to shape shots using any Hinge Action is something all great players have -- impeccable Clubface control via Educated Hands.

To get the perfect rate of closing do this.

Stand straight up with your Left Arm straight in front of you, parallel to the ground, with your fingers pointing out, and the back of your Flat Left Wrist facing the "target".

Now keeping everything the same as above, swing your Left Arm like a door back and forth, keeping it parallel to the ground. Notice your Left Wrist is still Vertical -- hence a no roll feel.

Now continue to swing back and forth (you're looking like a mad-man now!!) per above, while bending down from the waist into a golf-like position.

Maintain the same no roll feel of the Left Wrist!

You are performing Angled Hinging perfectly, with the perfect rate of Clubface closing. Of course, your Flat Left Wrist mirrors whatever the Clubface does.

Experiment with different Plane Angles. The most important thing is to keep this no roll feel.

Notice I haven't mentioned anything about degrees, and inches. Just a no roll feel.

Now, to shape shots using the same Angled Hinge Action, simply experiment with different ball positions. To impart Hook-spin, place ball further back, and for Slice-spin, place it further forwards. Tip, as you place the ball further back, you should feel everything going more towards 'right-field'. This is normal.

 

[oztrainee]

Very impressive logic Tongzz.

Let me repeat the question again.....I think the best way to seek an answer form this forum would be.....rather then off the subject

The ball flight for hitter with AH (Direction issue only) - now multipile choice

For short iron (wedge)
a) push
b) Push hook
c) straight
d) Fade
e) pull
f) pull cut

For driver
a) push
b) Push hook
c) straight
d) Fade
e) pull
f) pull cut

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

all things being equal...a swinger using horizontal hinging will hit the ball the lowest. A swinger/hitter using angled hinging will be higher, and either swinger/hitter using vertical hinging will be the highest.

If you are a hitter and seem to be hitting the ball "low" it stems from either ball position issues are you're "adding" right wrist bend somewhere in the backswing instead of simply establishing the correct amount at fix and leaving it there.

 

[bray]

quote:Originally posted by oztrainee

Very impressive logic Tongzz.

Let me repeat the question again.....I think the best way to seek an answer form this forum would be.....rather then off the subject

The ball flight for hitter with AH (Direction issue only) - now multipile choice

For short iron (wedge)
a) push
b) Push hook
c) straight
d) Fade
e) pull
f) pull cut

For driver
a) push
b) Push hook
c) straight
d) Fade
e) pull
f) pull cut

oztrainee,

In a true golfing machine (see 1-L p.10 diagram of the machine, in the sixth edition Homer used 10-10-D however if you replace that with 10-10-C) a hitter using angled hinging would hit the ball dead straight!!!!

so....to answer your multiple choice question C and C

now a player, not a machine, can add variances for different ball flight.

Sorting through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

 

[oztrainee]

Excellent... at least I got an answer... Thanks B-ray....
Jim, I am not sure what you are explaining....I am trying to understand what you are saying.

Now, if the seperation point is before the the low point, at seperation the clubface should be slighty open still. With Angle Hinging...with 0 variance

What makes the ball go DEAD straight?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN

Maybee the only tendence of a hitter is a litter lower ball flight.

My post was responding to this statement.

 

[tongzilla]

Per 2-J-1: "Angled Hinging gives the Clubface a Slice producing uncentered motion."

Per 10-10-C: "Its [Angled Hinging] Slice tendency must be compensated per 2-J-1."

Per 13-0: "If Dual Hinge Action seems too complicated, then use The Angled Hinge Action and add the compensation that requires – or put up with a Slice."

Get the message guys?

 

[oztrainee]

quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

all things being equal...a swinger using horizontal hinging will hit the ball the lowest. A swinger/hitter using angled hinging will be higher, and either swinger/hitter using vertical hinging will be the highest.

If you are a hitter and seem to be hitting the ball "low" it stems from either ball position issues are you're "adding" right wrist bend somewhere in the backswing instead of simply establishing the correct amount at fix and leaving it there.

it is all depending on the club that your are using.....if you are using a shorter iron... with Hitter hinging... the ball will go higher...this is why I am only asking about the ball direction.


Tongz,

Actually before the posting,we know the answer is "The ball will going to the right" As it is pretty obvious.....as you had talk about it a few times already, while we were on the phone, in my office etc.
is just HOW MUCH.....The actual ball flight is slice, big slice, mini slice, push or fade? (to be precise)

The reason why I am asking for a precise answer is that, I can evaluate hitter's swing base on the ball flight. i.e. I looked at Zhang Lin Wei's swing last week... he is a hitter.. but he hits the ball straight with mid iron and a little push for longer iron....

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Doesn't matter...angled hinging is a closing/laying back motion which creates more loft through impact than horizontal hinging does.

So, as i said...all things being equal, no matter the club, angled hinging will hit the ball higher.

 

[oztrainee]

Thanks Jim
Is just that I am trying to get a fine tuned answer, as I am confuse enough with all the various answers floating about.

 

[bray]

quote:Originally posted by oztrainee


Now, if the seperation point is before the the low point, at seperation the clubface should be slighty open still. With Angle Hinging...with 0 variance

What makes the ball go DEAD straight?

Oz,

Now I'm still approaching this from the standpoint that I'm trying to learn too, so we are in the same boat here.

The ball should be hit before low point because low point is actually the divot. So the clubface should be square at impact(equals dead straight ball flight) and closing(angled hinge) at lowpoint. Would you agree or make any corrections to this statement????

Sorting through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by oztrainee


What makes the ball go DEAD straight?

Close the face just enough at address so that at separation, the face is square to the target.

 

[Bono]

]

quote:Originally posted by bray

quote:Originally posted by oztrainee

Very impressive logic Tongzz.

Let me repeat the question again.....I think the best way to seek an answer form this forum would be.....rather then off the subject

The ball flight for hitter with AH (Direction issue only) - now multipile choice

For short iron (wedge)
a) push
b) Push hook
c) straight
d) Fade
e) pull
f) pull cut

For driver
a) push
b) Push hook
c) straight
d) Fade
e) pull
f) pull cut

oztrainee,

In a true golfing machine (see 1-L p.10 diagram of the machine, in the sixth edition Homer used 10-10-D however if you replace that with 10-10-C) a hitter using angled hinging would hit the ball dead straight!!!!

so....to answer your multiple choice question C and C

now a player, not a machine, can add variances for different ball flight.

Sorting through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

Ray,
Keep in mind that, with angled hinging, you have layback. So, while close, the face lays back – which in itself I don’t feel would be an issue, but the clubface and clubhead are moving at different speeds…and therefore, a slice producing tendency.

quote:Originally posted by bray

quote:Originally posted by oztrainee


Now, if the seperation point is before the the low point, at seperation the clubface should be slighty open still. With Angle Hinging...with 0 variance

What makes the ball go DEAD straight?

Oz,

Now I'm still approaching this from the standpoint that I'm trying to learn too, so we are in the same boat here.

The ball should be hit before low point because low point is actually the divot. So the clubface should be square at impact(equals dead straight ball flight) and closing(angled hinge) at lowpoint. Would you agree or make any corrections to this statement????

B-Ray

Low point is opposite the left shoulder – and usually, the divot is taken before this point. Also, keep in mind, the clubface alignment at impact also has to allow for the rotation of the clubface while the ball is still on it.

Not singling you out Ray! - Just some thoughts!

 

[bray]

Bono,

Thank you for your thoughts. I had misdefined the defintion of low point. You also are correct about the ball staying on the face while it is rotating through the impact interval. So thankyou I learned or I quess better yet I relearned something this morning.

Now let's go back to the original question. The ball flight for a hitter??

The goal of the machine should be to hit it straight, DEAD STRAIGHT!! Like the machine in 1-L.

So to do that the club face should enter the impact interval slightly open with layback and close while the ball is on the face resulting in the ball coming off straight. All this should be done using angled hinging.

So to answer the original question the goal of the Hitter in The Golfing Machine is to hit the ball straight. A player may take lesser tolerances but not a machine.

Bono, Oz, Fourbarrels, etc. would you agree.

Sorting through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by bray




So to do that the club face should enter the impact interval slightly open with layback and close while the ball is on the face resulting in the ball coming off straight. All this should be done using angled hinging.

So to answer the original question the goal of the Hitter in The Golfing Machine is to hit the ball straight. A player may take lesser tolerances but not a machine.

One must compensate for the Slicing tendency inherent with Angled Hinging (I have already given three quotes to support this).

So for Angled Hinging, the Clubface is aligned Closed to the Plane Line at Impact. Hence it will be even more closed relative to the Plane Line at Separation, but less closed relative to the Clubhead Delivery Line. Remember, to the extent that there is divergence between Clubhead Path and Clubface Alignment, there will be a Slice or Hook.

The Clubface is never set open at Impact with Angled Hinging (if you want a straight ball flight). With short shots it will be set square and with longer shots it with be more and more closed.

The harder you hit the ball, the longer it stays on the clubface, the greater the slice producing characteristic of Angled Hinging, and to compensate for this, you must Close the Clubface more than normal.

So to conclude:
The Hitter using the above Impact Alignments will hit straight shots.