The Diverted Path

[watson08]

I'd like to get a better understanding of why hitting down on the ball diverts the true path more from the inside - all other things remaining constant.

Paraphrasing Manzella: You have to hit down on the ball a certain amount with each club. This downward hitting action diverts your TRUE PATH to the right of your SWING (Plane Line). Should you over lean the shaft, this increases the downward stike and you will have dverted the TRUE PATH even more. You are going to hit down on wedges more than 8-irons, and 8-irons more than 6-irons, and so on. Thus, no matter what you do, aim more and more more left as the club gets shorter. Moving the ball position around too much will destroy your path. You can move the ball around a tiny bit, but I wouldn't until you get to longer clubs and the driver.

This is great and hugely important stuff since it directly impacts the D-plane.

I trust this to be absolutley correct, but I just haven't been able to clearly visualize why a more downward strike diverts the path more from the inside. Could somebody help me understand why this simply must be the case - all other things being held constant? Thanks in advance!

 

[Brian Manzella]

A movie with subtitles

I trust this to be absolutley correct, but I just haven't been able to clearly visualize why a more downward strike diverts the path more from the inside. Could somebody help me understand why this simply must be the case - all other things being held constant? Thanks in advance!

Your house faces west (outward, as in "inside-out").

Your Gutter (plane line) runs North-to-South.

A rat (the clubhead) starts on the peak of the roof (plane angle), at the farthest northward point. He runs down the roof toward the gutter, at the midway point in the gutter between its more northern, and southern extremes.

On the way to the gutter, he runs into an acorn (the ball).

The PATH of the rat (clubhead) is "inside-out."

Get it?

Good.

 

[watson08]

Love the analogy - thanks! I certainly understand how the rat/sweatspot are directed from the inside as you describe. My misunderstanding is how does a more downward strike (more shaft lean or shorter club) divert the clubhead sweatspot's true path even more from the inside. I apologize for being thick on this one.

 

[jmessner]

Love the analogy - thanks! I certainly understand how the rat/sweatspot are directed from the inside as you describe. My misunderstanding is how does a more downward strike (more shaft lean or shorter club) divert the clubhead sweatspot's true path even more from the inside. I apologize for being thick on this one.

I assume because you're farther away from the bottom(the only spot where true path = plane line I'm thinking). IAW, you're farther up the roof, so you're more inside.

I'm sure Brian will give a better answer and maybe we'll both learn something.

Jay

 

[tongzilla]

"it's elementary, my dear Watson..."

I trust this to be absolutley correct, but I just haven't been able to clearly visualize why a more downward strike diverts the path more from the inside. Could somebody help me understand why this simply must be the case - all other things being held constant? Thanks in advance!

The clubhead travels in an arc.

That arc could be inscribed on a flat inclined plane.

Before the bottom of the arc is reached, the clubhead travels downwards towards the low point. The clubhead also travels inside-out towards the low point.

After the bottom of the arc is reached, the clubhead travels upwards. The clubhead is also going outside-in.

At the excact bottom of the arc - the low point - the clubhead is neither traveling downwards nor upwards, and it's neither traveling inside-out nor outside-in.

As the clubhead nears the bottom of the arc, it is traveling less and less downwards (but still traveling downwards), and it is also traveling less and less inside-out (but still traveling inside-out).

If you understood all of the above, then you should now be able to deduce why when the ball is further back from low point, the clubhead will be going more inside-out and more downwards.

 

[watson08]

The clubhead travels in an arc.

That arc could be inscribed on a flat inclined plane.

Before the bottom of the arc is reached, the clubhead travels downwards towards the low point. The clubhead also travels inside-out towards the low point.

After the bottom of the arc is reached, the clubhead travels upwards. The clubhead is also going outside-in.

At the excact bottom of the arc - the low point - the clubhead is neither traveling downwards nor upwards, and it's neither traveling inside-out nor outside-in.

As the clubhead nears the bottom of the arc, it is traveling less and less downwards (but still traveling downwards), and it is also traveling less and less inside-out (but still traveling inside-out).

If you understood all of the above, then you should now be able to deduce why when the ball is further back from low point, the clubhead will be going more inside-out and more downwards.

Jay/Brian/Tong - I've got it and with it joy in my heart! I'm one of those types that needs to understand rather than just know what works. Tong - your explanation is no less than fabulous. Thanks!!!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

short answer:

the more the club is leaning foward the further back the ball must be to be struck by the clubhead or you'll fat it; thus that also means the club is further back away from it's lowest point meaning it's still traveling more "inside/out."

 

[watson08]

Jim, thanks for your explanation. I find this diverted path topic of huge importance with regards to fully understanding the D-plane.

I always thought a longer iron was more difficult to draw because it was harder to square its clubface. A more open clubface certainly requires the path to come further from the inside in order to produce a draw. But, perhaps the idea that it is more difficult to square a longer iron's face is a misconception. I certainly hit my share of pull-draws with long irons and this seems to indicate that I'm simply releasing too early and need to work on getting the path a bit more from the inside while delaying the release just slightly. I'd have never figured this out on my own. Now I know that the longer clubs come less from the inside due to the shallower angle of attack and more forward ball position. I see why Brian says to be cautious moving around ball position too much.

This stuff is crucial and explains clearly why I should be adjusting my aim slightly to the right on long clubs and slightly to the left on short irons when trying to produce a certain shot shape for a given release.

Thanks to everyone again!!

 

[mpro]

short answer:

the more the club is leaning foward the further back the ball must be to be struck by the clubhead or you'll fat it; thus that also means the club is further back away from it's lowest point meaning it's still traveling more "inside/out."

Jim,

I'm not sure that makes sense. I would think that the ball would have to be played more forward as the shaft leans more forward. The more forward lean, the higher the club head must be above the ground, so playing the ball back would result in a miss, top, or thin at best???

John

 

[goley]

Great post Tong.

Thanks

 

[savydan]

Would an Iron Byron hit 8 irons better by hitting down on them? Would you want to set it up a little open?

Does hitting down and setting up open on shorter irons simply give you more room for error?

If an Iron Byron (with a fixed arm/radius) is set up to hit 8 irons level, what would be the best/most direct way to make adjustments so it was hitting down on them?

Perhaps thinking in terms of the I.B. would help solidify some of these newer concepts.